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interesting article on exhaustion: physical or mental?
Last Post 12/17/2014 08:21 PM by Orange Crush. 18 Replies.
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Keith Richards


12/17/2014 09:47 AM
Posted By Hoshie S on 12/16/2014 12:00 AM
RPE is really effective if you are "tuned" and know yourself. I find when I get training regularly again, RPE is good and matches my data well.

On a side note, I put the garmin, trainingpeaks, etc away after I got pneumonia in Fall and am now just looking forward to getting back in shape by enjoying riding for a bit. Less stress.

Keith, I totally agree with your assessment on pain and ability to push thru. I am best when fit - then I don't mind hurting. So, my desire and ability to hurt increases w/ fitness which I suppose many guys are like that.

In contrast I have a riding "buddy" who has all the physical tools but he never out climbs me which is embarrassing for him.

I am a short mesomorph sprinter looking guy, and he is tall and willowy, but he just can't suffer. That's the bottom line. He's got better physiology, but soft as a pillow....


I think the thing is to ALWAYS have intensity workouts throughout the season. I personally am ALWAYS doing sprint workouts when I am training.

I have seen too many people, especially new riders, who focus on being able to finish long rides at the expense of being able to be fast for 30-50mi. I personally focus on getting my speed up as soon as I get the SLIGHTEST bit of fitness. I know enough about pack riding to stay out of the wind and conserve energy to get me through any ride under 50mi, but if I can't follow the accelerations....buh bye.

Hoshie....that is the guy. At this point I am in his head. He knows he is going to get dropped, it is just a matter of when he throws in the towel. But we both know he will throw in the towel, and that is the problem.

----- It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
Orange Crush


12/17/2014 01:39 PM
When it comes to riding with my friend, I am always THAT guy, the one getting dropped.

Former German track team pursuit champ at age 18, he has an inane ability to go fast and suffer till the lights go out even when he's untrained and out of shape. When Ned Overend put in his his failed attempt at the Mt Baker hillclimb price purse to set a new time record he was there till the very last kms to see it. Whistler GF, he'll started in rec field, ride up to the cat racers and then hang with them, no questions asked.

So when we rode together in our Ontario days. it was always a question of when, not if I'd get dropped. Every training ride was a major sufferfest, every hill or traffic light an interval (not to mention the scary as hell Mennonite German shepards). One of the more memorable rides was an intended 240k loop. With my friend always being late as he is we were off at an appropriate 11 am start. The first 2.5hrs we averaged 40kph to make up time. Did I mention we rode on MTBs? By about 5pm we'd covered 180k on our MTBs and hit the Escarpment. Complete collapse nothing left in the tank or in the jersey pockets to wife knows the rest, call of shame, complete sprawled out on side of road, and things like that.

The only time I ever managed to properly turn the tables on him was a ride out to Toronto for a party. He was sick as a dog and I had to pull him pretty much the entire 100k.

Good memories. We don't nearly ride enough together anymore.
Cosmic Kid


12/17/2014 06:09 PM
Posted By Orange Crush on 12/16/2014 11:50 AM
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 12/16/2014 10:30 AM
Keith, I totally agree with your assessment on pain and ability to push thru. I am best when fit - then I don't mind hurting. So, my desire and ability to hurt increases w/ fitness which I suppose many guys are like that.

So there is a "trend" now in training. / coaching that deals with "specificity"....IOW, as you get closer to your "A" race, your training should begin to mimic those race demands.

So if my goal is to slug it out 7 days in a row with > 3k metres of climbing each day (21000 m of vertical over the week) needing to meet a 17kph cutoff speed to stay ahead of the broom wagon, how should I train? Maybe y'all can lend me your glorious ability to suffer. Certainly this topic is very much pertinent in terms of goals for 2015. About a handful spots left to join me

based on the theory of "specificity", you would be using the winter months to raise your FTP as high as possible. Intervals, threshold work, etc. As you begin to approach your event, you add in more volume and reduce some intensity volume. You still keep doing intensity efforts in order to maintain your increased power, but more and more of your workouts are about distance and volume. Those rides should start to more closely resemble the efforts you expect to put out during the event the closer you get to it.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush


12/17/2014 08:21 PM
Thanks CK.

Volume should be no problem; got a solid plan in place that has worked couple times over. Intensity will require more focus than usual; I had planned to leave that till season warms again (intensity work sucks when its just a handful degrees above freezing and wet) but it sounds like i should get on it. I am working on core strenght right now (rower) which over last couple weeks has made big difference in riding. Double Ventoux ascent is current plan for icing on the training cake. Planning on renting a Dogma from a local shoppe which in absence of proper intensity training should buy me a bit of speed.
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