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My next crazy project
Last Post 09/25/2017 06:08 PM by 79 pmooney. 61 Replies.
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79pmooney

Posts:1735

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04/05/2017 01:09 PM
Getting excited here. I will pick up my chainring bolts today. Dave sent me photos.

I've been riding the bike with the wheel flipped the "wrong" way so the 1st two cogs of the dingle are pushed out and the single cog is pushed in. Nice. All the cogs sit almost exactly in line with a single outside chainring, giving me a very usable 3 speed except the ratio span has to be cogs that work on a Campy dropout, ie 6 possible cogs with the chain length just right (using a 1/2 link). Did two rides last weekend of 50 miles and 70 miles using 42 x 17/21 and 16. Now I get my 36 and 38 back. Time to find two quality Izumi chains in gold because that looks so nice on the bronze Mooney with its black chainring and cogs. The TiCycles 155 -22 black steel stem and black Kalloy post just add to the look. (The post may not stay. The seat really should be 1/4 click nose up from where it is but 1/4 clicks are really hard to do. I have distorted the seat lug a little shimming an undersized SunTour post for 30 years and a 27.2 is a scarring force fit now. If I find a sweet black 27.2 2-bolt post, it will be another trip to TiCycles for a ream, then Pete will really be riding in style. But it is also obvious that my current 27.0 cheapo post is close enough to ride, to do Cycle Oregon, to stay on another few years if need be and looks great.

Going triple chainline is going to be fun! I'm getting excited! (Oh, and I am going this with probably the lowest Q-factor I have ever had and my knees are loving it! Left crank is maybe a 1/4" off a long, sleek steel chainstay, right maybe a 1/2". A traditional 38 tooth inner chainring has enough clearance to slide a piece of paper between the teeth and the chainstay. Another cool feature (that could easily be done on any bike with fender eyes) - a really useful chain peg. Bike's got fenders. I ran a longer allen/pan head screw from the inside. Extending in perhaps a 1/2" with a nut snugged against the inside of the dropout, then extending out for the fenders and another nut. Probably wouldn't work for geared bikes as it is probably not higher enough to not interfere with the chain, but easy in a fix gear/single speed. (And they need pegs more - no derailleur to keep the chain on the chainring with the wheel off. Sweet that you can lay the bike down on its drive side and the chain stays in place while you change cogs or repair a flat. I got the idea from Jessica J where Dave drilled and threaded the ti dropout for a similar peg only that one doesn't do fenders.)

Don't ask the cost. This is one big $$ drivetrain. Wouldn't work inside a marriage. But for a lifetime love that has outlasted a marriage and all my other intimate relationships?

Ben
Dale

Posts:925

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04/05/2017 08:05 PM
Low q-factor. Reminds me of the line from Longfellow "Hardly a man is now alive. Who remembers..." Does anyone under the age of 40 know what that is, or more to the point, does any manufacturer know or even care? My knees like a low q-factor as well.
longslowdistance

Posts:1474

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04/06/2017 08:05 AM
Good point Dale,
You can still get the super low Q, square taper stuff. But you need a frame and driveline to match.
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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04/09/2017 01:21 PM
Went for a spin around the block on my new triple chainline, the flat ground gear first then the big gear, going up the very short ~14% around the corner. All feels good. I am about to go try the setup to go to Newberg and back, ~40 miles and 2000'.

Running 46,42,38 X 13,17-21. Gears of 96", 67" and 51". The low will be real work coming home but should be doable. (Almost a piece of cake in a few months if all goes well.) The high will be perfect for the first descent, a little high for the second.

Off to try it, I'll check in later. (Call an ambulance if you don't hear from me. )

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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04/09/2017 06:50 PM
I did it. Bike works well. First climb the gear felt too low but the climb coming home had a steep sectaon that was a doozy. First descent was a non-test of the bike. Pavement suffered a lot over the winter and we had a serious wind storm Friday. I rode the brakes all the way down. Coming home though, big wind at my back, a descent I know far better and the road was much cleaner. 96" is fun!

I have a lot of work to do to get my gear changes to look like fine-tuned operations!

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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06/19/2017 01:22 AM
The next step in the evolution: High strength, self starting chainring bolts. I've been using custom fabricated conventional chainring bolts with the sleeve/nut long enough to go through the usual chainrings then a spacer and into the third outboard ring. They work but are a royal pain to do chianring switches. Takes me two hours with a stand and concrete floor so I don't lose stuff. But the plan is to change gears fr different days at CO. That approach will never work, working over grass or dirt and no stand, after 70 mountain miles fixed.

So, I asked Dave Levey at TiCycles to make me steel bolts with countersink inboard and 8mm threading outboard plus - very important - a taper from the 10mm exact tight fit with the chainrings/spider to the 8mm threads. The threads were to extend outboard with ordinary nuts and washers. Dave said yes but he would sleep on it until he figured out how it was to be done.

His idea: buy 8mm hex head SS cap screws and nice SS nuts. Machine the cap to a countersink. Fabricate a sleeve (titanium is is stock on hand!) and slide it on. Cut to length later.

Went by the shop Friday to pick them up. He had machined the cap screws but not the sleeves so I got to watch. He had a brand new huge lathe. Beautiful and VERY impressive. Threw a ¾” rod of ti in it and started machining it down to 10mm (0.394”). That lathe could machine the rod down in one pass! One beautiful ribbon of titanium. Dave machined both the taper and recess for the countersink while the piece was still in the lathe. Slide them on the bolts, worked them down all the way and now you cannot tell the sleeves are a separate piece. (The ti and SS look almost identical).

Threw them on the bike Friday night. Took me an hour the first time. The bolts do extend almost 3/8” past the nuts and look quite lethal. (Fix gear – no pant legs allowed!) Since all threading is both steel and very visible, starting the nuts isn’t an issue at all. (I was pretty certain I was going to strip one or more of the aluminum sleeves. And with far more machining time and threads, they cost me a lot more.)

Today I did a variation of my loop around the Chehalem “mountains”. The passes are ~1300 feet. 68 miles. Forgot to put on my dingle. Never occurred to me until I was 20 miles from home, separated by that 1300’ pass. I had recently learned a somewhat easier way to go over (and with far less traffic) s I took it. Longer climb, straighter descent. I did have my high gear, 46 x 14. Not super high, TG because there were a bunch of little, not always gentle, uphills on the descent.

And the bike? It’s getting there! Crankset feel solid! (I am seeing that the chain has been chewing on the inside of the outboard chaining when it is on the middle ring. Certainly worse when the chain tension is loose. But the chew marks might flunk the bike out of a show, but will never matter anywhere else. Wow, does the crankset now feel solid! It doesn’t have the wonderful round of a Sugino 75, but it is decent Sugino and the eccentricity and chain tight/slack quite acceptable. I do have to rotate the crank ½ turn after my first guess. That will take me to a tight or loose. If that is acceptable, I’m good to go. So bolting on the wheel after a gear change is slightly slower than on Jessica J where I could usuallyu get it first try.

That done, the Mooney shines like it never has before. What a pure, clean ride! Downhill, what steering and feel. Uphill, even grunting at some low level of RPH (revolutions per hour), it still feels great. And mile after mile of flat. What a ride! I don’t know if I said it before, but I put on 28c Vittoria Corsa Graphenes. Those tires are a joy to ride! Fast and smooth. Really confidence building on corners. Wonderful on bad pavement. Ribbed tread! Best of the tires of my old racing days. (Yes the mixed tread Criterium Setas were better than any of the ribbed tread tubbies I rode but that was because they were high quality silk and latex tires, not because of the tread pattern.)

The fit is also getting very close. I still have all the pieces of tape on it for reference and more tweaking but today I never thought about the seat or the brake levers. I had a touch of numbness in one hand, down from being a real issue for both. (I moved the levers down to basically horizontal to get a natural angle for my whist when I am coming far forward while standing. Today I stood a lot.) Found that when I moved my hands further down onto the flats when I am in the drops sitting, that numbness went away. Easy fix! I have also purchased and modified a Jannd toolback to hold the Pedros Trixie fix gear wrench/spanner so access and replacement is in seconds. (And really cool! I knew that Pedros had gone to a slightly smaller, thinner tool with a new feature or two. I really wanted the old one which is a shop quality tool all the way. Rode to Universal Cycles after seeing that they had one in stock. On the way there, I went past my favorite shop, Citybikes, a coop owned place with boxes of old parts and mechanics who really know the good old stuff. Stopped in and asked. They had two; old ones they had for years! Score! So Jessica J and Pete no longer have to share a wrench. (Last week, I rode Jessica and flatted 7 miles from home. Wrench was on Pete! 4 pm Sunday. Gas stations, even full serve ones only have an impact wrench available for tires at that hour. But the plaza I stopped at has a Dollar Tree. And 100 cents bought me a vice grip that has now done its one and only job.)

So to-do: remove tape (later). Cut down the chainring bolts (when I feel up to doing some quality work!) Make a sexier tie between the front and rear brake housings. I tie them about an inch apart so I don’t regularly drag my left knee over the rear housing when I stand. I run my rear to the left of the HT.

Pete has risen from bike #5 to the nicest I have ever owned.

Ben
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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06/19/2017 02:36 PM
Still no pictures in this thread :-(

My Diverge road bike just had 11-40 cassette installed on compact drive train with eye on Hellracer July 8 (250 kms; 150 of which are gravel, 5,000 m vertical, the key climb is 8 kms at 13% on gravel with steepest pitch at 22%). 32 mm hardshell tires. Will be trialing the 34x40 gearing on some singletrack with week, clear that path, roadie coming through LOL.
longslowdistance

Posts:1474

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06/19/2017 05:39 PM
OC, what derailleurs and shifters work with your setup? Is it 10 or 11 speed?
PS: photos would be great!
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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06/19/2017 05:57 PM
Long cage Tiagra. It's a 10-speed cassette. Derailleur theoretical capacity is close to maxed out with setup. I think I could have gone to a 42. Seems to shift pretty good based on quick trial (weather sucked this weekend).

I'll provide a ride report w photos once the Hellracer is survived. Should be the most epic 1-day ride I've ever done. We'll be 8 from club with 4WD sag wagon support. Well outside cell phone range.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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06/19/2017 09:27 PM
I don't even wanna think about any climb that requires a 34x40....nope, fook that.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:1474

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06/20/2017 05:12 AM
I'm a "sit and spin" style of rider and like riding gravel roads in the mountains here in VA. Steep pitches are common, and often are rough due to erosion and/or washboards. I had mistakenly thought Shimano's road systems only would alow up to 32 in the back. So OC's setup is very interesting.
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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06/21/2017 01:12 AM
Went for a solstice ride this evening. Beautiful cool summer day. Pure R & R, never got my wind up. (But it was windy!)

Absolutely love the bike. It has become the most comfy in-the-drops bike I have even known. I think the only tweak I will do fit-wise is start lowering the stem by little increments. It is very close now. I put on a 44-18 and going upwind was easy.

Ben
Nick A

Posts:523

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06/21/2017 10:55 AM
OC, LOL. A thousand words are worth a picture? Just razzing you 79. This is still fun to follow.

Nick
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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06/21/2017 11:00 AM
Was hesitant to sidetrack Ben's thread but given that LSD found some interest in it, good stuff.

Actually rode a 13k 7% (max 12%) gravel climb on the Orbea (23 mm tires; 34x25) the other week. Definitely maxed out on steeper pitches and needing to come out saddle to keep momentum going, taking the accompanying loss of traction for granted. That's where the granny gears will come in.
longslowdistance

Posts:1474

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06/21/2017 01:42 PM
Thanks OC. Still a tad confused b/c big S's webpage sez the tiagra does not go beyond 34t. Just because they say that doesn't make it so. I will watch your posts with great interest.

(We geezers and perhaps including OP Ben recall that the old Campy Record claimed it would work up to 28 t, but it didn't really, as I found out on Mt. Washington when I wanted to get out of the 28 to something bigger for the rare easier stretch - wasn't going to happen. 42x28 all the way up.
You may now return to the present century.)

Fellow gravel grinder and sit and spin steep climber tech heads, please let me share an epiphany:
With the Di2 option, Shimano offers an alternative to SRAM, who previously held the monopoly on the combo of mtb gears and drop bars/brifters.
If I successfully put aside a few (zillion) bucks, I'm dreaming of something new and shiny with 985 levers and XT derailleurs with a 2 x 11. Maybe 650B rather than 700c. And a suspension fork with lockout.


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