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Paging Cosmic... Aero ?'s
Last Post 02/09/2021 08:37 PM by Cosmic Kid. 12 Replies.
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 02/08/2021 12:30 PM |
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Okay...
Every bike I am looking at is significantly heavier than what I ride presently. My 10 year old Lynskey is 16.25 pounds, whereas the three bikes I am looking at are realistically 18.5 to 19 pounds.
Those heavier bikes are aero whereas the Lynskey is not.
My main fun is climbing, but you do connect a lot of climbs with flats, rollers, and descents.
Question to you is - how much do you think I will suffer on the climb with the heavier aero bike versus my light non-aero?
Is the aero worth the weight for someone who likes to ride how I do?
Again, the three bikes are the Canyon Endurace, Cervelo Caledonia 5, 3T Explor Race Max.
Would possibly get ride of three of my bikes to go with the 3T and two sets of wheels - one for road, and one for good gravel. |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 02/08/2021 12:31 PM |
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Posted By christopher behrens on 02/08/2021 12:30 PM
Okay...
Every bike I am looking at is significantly heavier than what I ride presently. My 10 year old Lynskey is 16.25 pounds, whereas the three bikes I am looking at are realistically 18.5 to 19 pounds.
Those heavier bikes are aero whereas the Lynskey is not.
My main fun is climbing, but you do connect a lot of climbs with flats, rollers, and descents.
Question to you is - how much do you think I will suffer on the climb with the heavier aero bike versus my light non-aero?
Is the aero worth the weight for someone who likes to ride how I do?
Again, the three bikes are the Canyon Endurace, Cervelo Caledonia 5, 3T Exploro Race Max.
Would possibly get ride of three of my bikes to go with the 3T and two sets of wheels - one for road, and one for good gravel.
P.S. my present bike has 50 mm deep carbon wheels, about 1600 grams. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 02/08/2021 01:11 PM |
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And joke for the day - wouldn't rim brakes be both more aero and lighter? Allow for a lighter fork? Maybe save a touch of weight on the left chainstay?
Dinosaur technology, I know. But when it comes to weight - I feed little 3 gram dinosaurs. Amazing high tech super aerodynamic machines. (Hummingbirds! I've seen it said seriously that birds are the living dinosaurs. That they hadn't changed much at all because with their technology, they never had to.) |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 02/08/2021 02:09 PM |
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That's part of the question, Ben.
I presently have rime brakes on my light road bike with aero wheels. I am not sure if my riding would improve - in speed or fun - with an aero bike, unless I gave up my climbing and stuck to the flats and mild rollers.
I'm hoping CK will tell me that I'm wrong, so I can go on lusting for a new bike that may empty my wallet, but only give me buyer's remorse ; ) |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/08/2021 02:17 PM |
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It really depends on the characteristics of the climbing you do.
If it is mostly sub 7% ish, aero will be more important than weight. The steeper above 7% the more weight will start trumping aero although that of course also depends how fast you climb. My local training hill is 12k at 7.5%, definitely weight is a factor.
On downhill less aero should save brake wear :-) |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 02/08/2021 02:20 PM |
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OC -
I had read 5%, but I think that you are probably going the same speed at 7% that I go at 5 ; ) |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/08/2021 04:28 PM |
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OC is generally correct....the % number will vary depending on the characteristics of the cyclist though. A pro cyclist will have a higher gradient % before weight trumps aero.
And that is mostly only if your ride finishes on a climb. If you have a descent following your climb, etc. aero should be prioritized. The time lost to weight on climbs is minimal....
Good article here on it....
https://road.cc/content/feature/lightweight-v-aero-which-best-227520#:~:text=Aero%20gains%20are%20worth%20far,hit%20in%20terms%20of%20weight.
We’ll leave the final word to Swiss Side’s Jean-Paul Ballard.
“In general, I say that in more than 90% of cases (rides), you would choose the aero setup.” |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/08/2021 08:50 PM |
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Our other local hill is 5.5%. I can easy pace up that one. The 7.5% no way. Massive difference.
The thing is that the aero advantage is hard to feel. You will definitely feel the weight advantage when you need it most. So while aero may help more, dropping weight on bike will feel better. Given the choice and given that I don’t race or care about downhill speed, I know which way I’d go with this. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/09/2021 07:33 AM |
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“Feel” is subjective and clouds our objectivity. Just because a lighter bike “feels” faster on the hills doesn’t mean that it objectively is....only the clock will make that determination.
A good example was when the original Flite saddle debuted...everyone went gaga for it because it was so light. But that perception was magnified because it sat at the end of a large pendulum (the seatpost / seat tube). So because it was wagging around at the end of this large pendulum, the impact of the lighter weight was magnified. Losing 100g at the end of a long lever like that felt a helluva lot more than losing 100g in the middle of the frame.
But you can’t eliminate (or measure) a perceived psychological benefit, either....if you “feel” like a lighter bike let’s you climb faster, you may very well climb faster. But it isn’t the bike that is doing it, it is all in your head. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 02/09/2021 12:23 PM |
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So, I should just get a lighter saddle instead of a new bike?
Awesome.
; ) |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 02/09/2021 06:44 PM |
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Posted By Cosmic Kid on 02/09/2021 07:33 AM
“Feel” is subjective and clouds our objectivity. Just because a lighter bike “feels” faster on the hills doesn’t mean that it objectively is....only the clock will make that determination.
A good example was when the original Flite saddle debuted...everyone went gaga for it because it was so light. But that perception was magnified because it sat at the end of a large pendulum (the seatpost / seat tube). So because it was wagging around at the end of this large pendulum, the impact of the lighter weight was magnified. Losing 100g at the end of a long lever like that felt a helluva lot more than losing 100g in the middle of the frame.
But you can’t eliminate (or measure) a perceived psychological benefit, either....if you “feel” like a lighter bike let’s you climb faster, you may very well climb faster. But it isn’t the bike that is doing it, it is all in your head.
CK, I rode up the toughest hill of my past 30 years with a pair of
sandals in an under-DT bottle cage. 2014 Cycle Oregon. 2 miles,
hitting 14 and 14.5%. On a 42-17. (I thought the big hill was the next
one! Too steep to stop, change gears and start in the bike traffic by
the time I figured that out.) This was my second fix gear CO. First time
I had real foot issued from pulling up that hard on the straps.
(Crater Lake. 30,000' in 5 days. Blisters, an ongoing foot infection
after and the top bones in my foot felt like they were slightly
cracked. An ongoing balance between straps tight enough to prevent my
toes getting crunched (blisters and infection) and the bones from those too
tight straps. Eventually I removed the straps and ran laces - ahhhh! -
but I wasn't there yet.)
So, for CO fix gear 2 I carried Tevas to
wear every rest stop. Put them in a custom, tight fitting bag that
slid into one of those Lezyne WB cages with sides but no top. Ran a
toestrap around all. Completely secure and down very low, beside the
bottom of the chainring and between the pedals. (Any engagement with
either of those would have been a story for the grand kids I don't
have.)
End result? That probably 14 ounces I added was entirely
both very low, ~8" off the road, and near completely blocked from view
by the fat ti DT. Plus I had to look down between my knees. The time honored principal of out of sight, out of mind. I
had no perception that it was slowing me down and it didn't. (Being so
close to the "axis" of bike rock, the line between front and rear tire
contact points, I could not feel its effect as I rocked the bike.
Granted I was rocking the bike around an astronomical 25 rpm.)
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/09/2021 08:19 PM |
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Posted By christopher behrens on 02/09/2021 12:23 PM
So, I should just get a lighter saddle instead of a new bike?
Awesome.
; )
You don’t even need the saddle. Just work harder. But just like there’s a difference between feel and actuality there’s also a difference between need and want. So go crazy. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/09/2021 08:37 PM |
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there’s also a difference between need and want
I want six-pack abs, but I need another donut.  |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
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