6ix
Posts:485
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| 03/14/2020 11:02 AM |
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What would you expect this to cost for my 7-year old Scott carbon hardtail with XT?
New rotors, pads and brake bleed?
Maybe $180? Nope, try $281!! Yeah, the complete bike is probably only worth $800 on Craigslist these days.
Granted, I haven't purchased the tools nor learned how to bleed brakes but that price is bonkers. I really want to support the local shops because when you need them, you need them. The service prices are way too friggin' high though. I learned how to do all of my own wrenching up until hydraulic discs but I suppose i'll need to learn that as well. And cutting carbon steerer tubes. I bet they'd charge $30 to do that alone.
OK, rant over.
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 03/14/2020 04:41 PM |
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That does seems excessive.....but considering your area, maybe not all that surprising. You’d think competition would keep prices low, but the whole area, and the sport specifically, is pretty affluent now, so....
Cutting a carbon steerer is the same as an alloy steerer....just get a blade designed to cut carbon. And wear a mask.....if you can find one. You don’t want to breathe in that carbon dust. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 03/14/2020 04:59 PM |
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There was just a many page thread over on the other forum about how much better disc brakes were. The proponents poopoo'd the cost of maintenance. One regular there, a pro mechanic, said he's not complaining; it was really good for his wallet.
Thanks 61x, you're helping me stay caliper!
Edit: $180 bucks? I've never paid that for an entire set and levers, never mind $100 more.
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 03/14/2020 05:44 PM |
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| I only have experience with mtb, where bleeding is actually pretty easy, especially with Shimano because they use mineral oil rather than corrosive DOT fluid. Takes me about 30 minutes total for both. Easier with the brakes removed. Rotors can be pricey. |
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eurochien
Posts:163
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| 03/15/2020 10:37 AM |
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| I've worked on both Shimano and Sram mountain bike disc brakes and the bleeding procedure is very easy with Shimano. It's a bit more involved with Sram but if you get the right kit, follow the instructions (lots of good ones on YouTube) it demystifies the whole thing. |
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6ix
Posts:485
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| 03/15/2020 02:59 PM |
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Took the bike out today for a nice ride with the freakin' expensive new brakes and - surprise - felt like new! Worth $281? Not quite sure of that.
That will be the last time I pay for somebody to bleed my brakes though. Have to learn so will spend some of this forced alone time watching YouTube! Thankfully all my bikes are Shimano and I won't have to mess with that nasty DOT stuff.
To Ben's point though, things were a lot easier when installing and adjusting brakes came down to simple cables and brake pads. And this coming from an early adopter of Di2! |
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smokey52
Posts:493
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| 03/15/2020 06:16 PM |
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| Often, not just for cycling, but for carpentry and yard maintenance: Buy the tool and learn the technique. As a plus, an opportunity to learn from mistakes. |
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smokey52
Posts:493
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| 03/21/2020 07:55 AM |
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| My LBS is closed for COVID-19. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 03/21/2020 08:41 AM |
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So as I continue to struggle with getting my new components on the Canyon (just one fook-up after another), I just ordered a SHimano bleed kit. IL is now Shelter In Place so I am going to use this time to figure out how to do it myself.
Will finish taking the Ultegra stuff off my Canyon and putting it on my CX bike. The majority of the build should be fine....and then’ll tackle the discs. Worst case scenario is I do the Walk of Shame and bring it up to the shop and say “fix what I screwed up”.  |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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zootracer
Posts:833
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| 03/22/2020 05:23 PM |
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| Think I''ll stick with rim brakes.... |
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6ix
Posts:485
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| 03/25/2020 01:39 PM |
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How is the grouppo switch coming along, CK? Did the bleed kit arrive? I really need to figure that part out so I won't have to pay so much at the LBS.
And Zoot, I hear ya on rim brakes. My cross bike has hydro discs and the front continues to howl even after cleaning with pure alcohol multiple times. And its' not even old. Rim brakes are infinitely easier to work with and offer a lot more forgiveness. I have yet to be in a situation where discs saved my butt. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 03/26/2020 12:05 AM |
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The cable engaged low budget shimano disc brakes on my commuter are by far the best performing brakes I’ve ever had. Super brake performance when needed and easy to modulate. I can ride on bumper of a car with those without any questions as to performance.
Next best brakes would be the ultegra calipers on my road bike.
The TRP disc brakes on my gravel bike never came close to either but low end shimano mechanicals I replaced them with are better. Curious about the new hydraulics I will get with upgrade of gravel bike. Apparently ultegra level since frame is still post mount and everything new is all flat mounted. Some of components for upgrade are stuck in a warehouse in California unfortunately. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 03/26/2020 09:19 AM |
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| How about brake squeal? Do you have it with some systems but not others? |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 03/26/2020 09:51 AM |
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The discs on my commuter have never squealed. Just a zing of grit stuck in brakes when going over wet trails.
The front TRP on the Diverge squealed like mad all the time. The cheaper shimano I have on there now is much better but still not perfect.
Cheaper seems to be better. Of course there’s a weight and ugliness penalty.
In retrospect the poor TRP performance was likely attributable to incompatibility with Tiagra brifters not providing sufficient lever to fully engage them. Setting the TRPs tighter however caused them to rub so was not a viable solution. I doubt a similar issue would play with hydraulics. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 03/26/2020 10:18 AM |
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| I have the same issue the TRP, now I know it’s not just me. |
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zootracer
Posts:833
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| 03/26/2020 10:28 AM |
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I've got new bike fever. Looking at the 2020 road bikes, it's hard to find one that comes without Disc brakes. I could not find a single Specialized. Trek has a few. Colnago has a couple, mostly with their cheaper models, such as the CLX. Why is this disc brake thing being jammed down our throat?
End of rant, thank you... |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 03/26/2020 01:25 PM |
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zoot, time to think custom. (And get a bike with a less stiff forks since there is no disc brake down there. (Tailor a fork to be comfortable? What a concept! (Wait a minute - framebuilders have been doing that for the past 12 decades.)
The new force driving custom frames - disc brakes!
Ben |
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6ix
Posts:485
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| 03/26/2020 03:14 PM |
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| Zoot. Check out Chapter2 bikes at Glory Cycles and also on their own site. They offer nearly every model in both disc and rim. In my opinion, no real sense in going custom unless you are a bizarre size or just have money to burn. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 03/26/2020 03:54 PM |
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2020 is not the time to buy 2020 bikes.
I am looking at two 2019 bikes, one for me, one for my wife, that are on LBS website with a 40% discount.
The Spec Dolce has rim brakes. |
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Habanero
Posts:257
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| 03/26/2020 05:37 PM |
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| Because the bike industry loves answering questions no one had. They gotta keep “innovating” or the bottom line gets whacked.
Good piece here about disc brake suckage:
https://pezcyclingnews.com/features/eds-rant-covid-19-disk-brakes-remco-evenepoel/ |
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Habanero
Posts:257
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| 03/26/2020 05:42 PM |
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| I’ve got new bikeitis as well. I’m looking at either custom steel or ti, dressed with full Campag and CALIPER brakes! |
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DonnaMobile
Posts:71
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| 03/26/2020 06:34 PM |
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Oh boy, am I ever relieved! I see am not the only one here who will stick with rim brakes! Now I can come out. Last summer I had a new all-road frame built by a wonderful framebuilder named Antonio Taverna, of Cicli Vetta in Padua Italy. One reason I had it built was that I already had all the components. The second was that I prefer Campagnolo shifters and no bikes are specd with them. The main reason, though, was that I did not want disc brakes. There were many reasons, starting with the inconvenience. I frequently drive places with my bike and use a fork mount roof rack that I can quickly put my bike on. Not possible with discs, of course. I also envisioned a scenario where I was on tour and experienced a damaged wheel. I wouldn’t be able to just borrow any old wheel from someone. I also take my bike on trains a lot, and read that some racks might present a problem for discs. People who have them told me what a pain they are. I was always coming across articles about adjusting and maintaining disc brakes—why deal with that? And mainly, I simply had no need for them. I’ve ridden down many a switchback descent in the rain and the problem wasn't not being able to slow down down, it was fear of losing traction. When I come to a a sketchy unpaved descent, I walk, and having discs wouldn’t change that. BTW, the brakes on my new bike are TRP CX8 mini v-brakes.
I am not against disc brakes, just the belief that they should be the norm for everyone, on every kind of bike, and not giving consumers a choice or say in the matter. People are being brainwashed into thinking they are so much better, but many can’t even say why. Even Walmart sells bikes with discs! My neighbor paid extra to have a disc-equipped MTB to ride on a flat multi-use trail. Now he’s getting a Trek road bike with them because he’s convinced that they are better, even though he’s never even ridden a road bike. I expect that many people who have them won’t admit even to themselves that they don’t like them, because they’ve shelled out a lot for the bike. I have a feeling that the average buyer may not even realize that frames are made either for rim brakes or for disc brakes, and you can’t switch if you change you mind. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 03/26/2020 08:51 PM |
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Discs absolutely are better in some ways and worse in others. We all know the issues. Discs and preferably hydraulic discs are an absolute no brainer on a mountain bike. If like me you ride on a mix of gravel, trail, and asphalt, IMO discs also gets the nod, with cable discs in the discussion. Just my opinion. I would miss that superlative one finger disc feel and control if I went back to rim brakes.
For the rest (yo pure roadies!), including mostly asphalt riding, beats me. Joining the motorcycle crowd a decade ago only amplified my preference for disc's feel and power, but comparing 200 lbs of rider and bike at 40-50 mph to 700 lbs of rider and much faster bike is skewed.I don't think I am biased, as I recognize never doubt what I am piloting and know a clutch lever (left hand on a motorcycle) from a bicycle's left brake lever. But please ignore this post if you choose. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 03/26/2020 09:40 PM |
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In winter 2014/15 ahead of Haute Route I did a lot of hilly winter riding in very wet conditions.
There was one 4 way stop at bottom of a good descent that I never managed to slow down for with rim brakes and it was always left turn fingers crossed no traffic. That was the impetus for Diverge with discs but per above it’s been a bit of a journey to get good performance out of the setup. The current cheapie shimano discs get the job done.
Of course as soon as I bought that Diverge as my de facto winter road bike I read on the inter webs about this killer gravel ride called Hellracer250. Put one and one together and the rest is history. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 03/27/2020 01:45 AM |
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| Is it true that you may have to bleed your brakes if you turn the bike upside down? I heard that somewhere and it strikes me that could be a real liability, especially for someone like Donna who will be traveling and won't always be ar her bike when train attendant is shifting stuff around. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 03/27/2020 06:30 AM |
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Ben, I hang my mbt and cx bikes by the front wheel, I've flipped them numerous times while wrecking, and laid them down on their side so many times I can't count. While they might be overdue for a fluid service I've never had an issue with any of them. I think the upside down warning is an urban legend.
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 03/27/2020 10:47 AM |
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| There were some crappy SRAM mtb brakes that did what Ben is describing. I don’t recall the model name. All sorts of other problems, too. Constantly needed attention, grabby, basically SRAM laid a large egg. That was about 7 or 8 years ago. I finally got rid of them and went to XT’s, sooo much better. My understanding is that SRAM stuff now is fine. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 03/27/2020 10:22 PM |
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6ix, the Canyon swap has been completed, but the LBS did it for me (($191 for full install, including bleeding the brakes and setting up the electronic drivetrain). Had already ridden in the AM and it was a cold crappy day, so didn’t get a chance to really test the FSA stuff out, but first impressions riding back from the shop were very positive.
Bleed kit arrived for the SHimano and the conversion of the CX bike will probably start next week. P14 is getting a bike so she can do the MS150 ride this year for Mrs. CK and it arrives Monday. It is a gravel bike, so I don’t want mine in pieces yet so I can ride with her.
As for disc vs rim, I’ll never go back to rim brakes....and remember, I am on pancake flat Chicago. Disc brakes simply offer better control and modulation. I’ll take the aero and weight hit....totally worth it.
As for disc noise, lot of squeal problems start at the beginning...pads / rotors wer never embedded properly in the first ride and hence the never-ending squeal. Almost all discs will squeal if they get wet however.
And this trend is almost 100% consumer driven. Once it started in CX, the move into road was all but inevitable. SHimano and SRAM finally making hydraulic brifters was the tipping point.....hydraulics were the key. SRAM tried to go dual-path and offer hydraulic rim calipers as well, but by that market was focused only on discs. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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eurochien
Posts:163
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| 03/27/2020 10:30 PM |
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Posted By Frederick Jones on 03/27/2020 10:47 AM
There were some crappy SRAM mtb brakes that did what Ben is describing. I don’t recall the model name. All sorts of other problems, too. Constantly needed attention, grabby, basically SRAM laid a large egg. That was about 7 or 8 years ago. I finally got rid of them and went to XT’s, sooo much better. My understanding is that SRAM stuff now is fine.
I have Sram Guide disc brakes on my Yeti and they work great until the summer sun hits the lever and some plastic washer inside the lever expands with heat and basically locks the lever (as in, you brake, and the lever doesn't return), I've had 2 warrantied so far.
Another "great" invention is the press fit bottom bracket. I'm dealing with this right now trying to build an Argon 18 Gallium with Campy Chorus 11 from my now deceased Masi and one of the cups won't go in straight (I'm using a Park Tool press). Whoever came up with that harebrained idea should be condemned to build 50 bikes a day whith that POS system. |
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zootracer
Posts:833
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| 03/28/2020 12:57 AM |
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| "I'll give you my rim brakes when you pry it from my cold dead hands." |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 03/28/2020 10:41 AM |
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Press for BB were a great idea in concept.....and absolutely dogschitt in reality. Once you get into production, maintaining proper tolerances for the system to work as intended is nearly impossible.
Threaded BB’s FTW.... |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 03/28/2020 03:24 PM |
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N+1 engaged for my wife w LBS.
Norco Valence 105 w hydraulic discs. 40% off can’t beat that.
Apparently the last of my GRX components for Diverge shipped from California but between supplier and shop they are unsure if or when it will make it across border. So Diverge is coming home for now. |
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