Dale
Posts:1767
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| 06/13/2021 10:08 AM |
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Rewatching some 1992 monument, Tour of Flanders perhaps, I noticed the pockets were much lower on the jersey than currently and caused me to reflect on how the cuts have changed from the not very form fitting to the almost painted on look we now have.
My team had some of the first Castelli San Remo skin suits and those were amazing… I still break it out every once in a while. Racing cross skinsuits are the thing; no extra fabric to inadvertently catch the nose of the saddle during a dismount or remount, no pockets since carrying anything is pointless in 45-60 minute race especially since you pass a pit twice a lap.
The new kits have better fabrics, they’re cooler, lighter, better fitting, and exceed the old stuff by a mile except in one area, the pockets. I don’t need them placed on my rear end but I don’t want them in the middle of my back where I can’t pull out a gel one handed. Most of the time it’s a two hand operation, one to grab the lower hem and pull down so the other can grab what I need. I know I lack the flexibility of Simone Biles but virtually all the race cut jerseys I’ve had in the last eight years or so are horrible for pocket placement. Club cut jerseys are better for pockets but are too baggy even when I size down.
Come on jersey manufacturers, don’t make me buy a fanny pack  |
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zootracer
Posts:833
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| 06/13/2021 10:32 AM |
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| I have an old jersey made by World Jerseys, it's red, pockets are low and fits a tad loose. I wear it a lot. I ordered a new one. Same design (Nuke EM) and it fits tighter and pockets are higher. The fabric is also different. Like you, it's really hard to reach for stuff in the middle pocket. Maybe they use gorilla's for models. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/13/2021 10:39 AM |
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Posted By Dale Dale on 06/13/2021 10:08 AM
Come on jersey manufacturers, don’t make me buy a fanny pack
Handlebar bags will fix that for you and are the new cool. Even the pros ride with them now on training rides LOL |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 06/13/2021 12:29 PM |
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I have 4 old school Mavic spring/fall jerseys that the local shop bought a lot of then discovered the zippers were crap and sold them for $30 each. I paid the local drycleaner to have really good zippers installed. No doubt an immigrant did the work; cash and no receipt but really well done.
Pockets are properly low, fabric is sturdy, all the sewing details on there jerseys excellent. Portland's getting tired of seeing me in them. They are bright, almost fluorescent orange with big reflecting silver patches of duct tape like stripes. Low "tails" to cover lower back and be more visible to cars when crouched low. Too warm if the temps get above 70 but the fabric, while thick, is the good stuff.
The huge winner of those jerseys is the pockets. Completely in the right place. Very sturdy. Meant for serious use. My first choice going to the farmer's market because wallet access is so good. Right up there with favorite jeans. They're big. No, not super stretchy so there are limits as to how much you can get in them but the jersey doesn't care if you try to push the boundaries.
When these jerseys die, I'll take one as a pattern to someone who can duplicate the fit with the best fabric we can find. Sadly, my two resources there are no longer around but the jerseys should go long enough into post pandemic recovery for me to find someone. (If the concept of quality custom handwork survives. But we do and will have a resource - immigrants who know how to make clothing. I have zero issue with some of my bucks going to them for quality work.)
Dale - the new jerseys - so we can paste small items onto our backs like they are electronic images. (That they look and feel 3-dimensional is a very clever illusion.) You want that Snickers? You have to download it. (This is the future. Next year we will be downloading meal services to our phones and laptops. Finally get those apps to do their intended service - feed our "app"itite. You didn't know that the pro cycling world is leading the way.) |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 06/13/2021 12:47 PM |
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And seriously - handlebar bags. I'm going to try one for my "good" bike, the geared TiCycles because it has always had the want to go into high speed shudder. Probably the result of: 1" steel steerer, long top tube, low trail, non-damping steel fork (probably 531 or Columbus). This was all stuff I requested and wouldn't back down on so I cannot fault Dave Levy, the builder. As I get older, less strong, less "authoritative" on the bike and more cautious, the shudder comes on at lower speed and is worse. I may try a ride with a short, heavy pipe lashed to the tops to see if that helps. If so, the search is on for a suitable weight container! And the total rethink as to what goes where.
Actually this could work out really nicely. My plan is to replace the toolbag with what really belongs under the seat - a proper sewup. So that tube of sunscreen, spoke wrench and Allen keys have to go somewhere. |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 06/13/2021 12:53 PM |
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| Just got a small handlebar bag - love it! |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 06/13/2021 02:05 PM |
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Posted By christopher behrens on 06/13/2021 12:53 PM
Just got a small handlebar bag - love it!
A hanny pack!
Does it quiet the front end at speed?
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 06/13/2021 03:23 PM |
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Handlebar bags will fix that for you and are the new cool
Never. I will die on this hill.
I bought a Perfetto jersey recently, thinking it could be the ticket for my upcoming Iceland race.
Great temperature range, great fabrics, etc....but the pockets are damn near worthless.
For the most part, Pactimo has good positioning for their pockets. My local club uses them...and I generally like them. But the aero cut for the arms isn’t great. (You need to use raglan sleeves, not a box cut).
But I hate high pockets on jerseys...I shouldn’t have to be a contortionist to access my nutrition. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/13/2021 03:35 PM |
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| “He died on a hill somewhere in remote Iceland, of a hunger knock apparently. Fellow riders indicated he was last seen trying in vain to reach his jersey pocket for an energy gel”. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 06/13/2021 03:41 PM |
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Posted By Orange Crush on 06/13/2021 03:35 PM
“He died on a hill somewhere in remote Iceland, of a hunger knock apparently. Fellow riders indicated he was last seen trying in vain to reach his jersey pocket for an energy gel”.
"He was unable to download his nutrition due to the high latitude and the mountain ridge. The virtual image was still to be seen on his jersey."
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 06/13/2021 05:43 PM |
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| I must qualify my purchase - it was for my gravel bike. The road bike will never see such sin. |
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eurochien
Posts:163
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| 06/13/2021 06:44 PM |
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| Yeah I've seen all the cool cats rocking those roll bags on their handlebars. They remind me of Bartali, Coppi and the whole 1940's - 50's peloton with their bottles on the bar. Everything old is new again. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/13/2021 06:45 PM |
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| The handlebar bag had made it onto my road bike as well but only for day long self supported rides. It’s simply the superior and most aesthetic storage solution. I hate the look and feel of stuffed jersey pockets wherever they may sit. Larger saddle bags - yuck and hopelessly unstable on gravel. A great companion for my handlebar bag is the bear bell which can be attached when headed to grizzly country. I just need to start figuring out where I can attach the bear spray before July trip which heads into epicentre of bc grizzly habitat. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/13/2021 06:50 PM |
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Btw while most of my jerseys are regular cut, I have two club race cut jerseys (from Louis Garneau I think). Pocket positioning seems fine. On the first iteration we did notice some issues with stitching and tearing of fabric near pockets. Second iteration seems better.
Of course there have been some issues with Covid fit into those race cut jerseys for some of our members. Otherwise these races cuts are really slick. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 06/13/2021 10:16 PM |
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“He died on a hill somewhere in remote Iceland, of a hunger knock apparently. Fellow riders indicated he was last seen trying in vain to reach his jersey pocket for an energy gel”.
LOL!!! |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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smokey52
Posts:493
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| 06/13/2021 10:56 PM |
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| I never put anything I need while riding into the center pocket. It's a good place to keep the car key or the map I may need to check when I'm off the bike. The phone can go there too. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 06/14/2021 10:04 AM |
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Dale, regarding the jersey pockets being up on your back - well, they just haven't yet gotten to the CK approved (and fully aero) just below your neck. (You reach over your shoulder.) The side pockets will be quite small to stay aero while the center will be huge for the tail effect. The plan is to eventually eliminate the side pockets and have all three in line, biggest at your neck, tapering to the smallest midback.
Yes, those lower pockets will be unreachable but by that time, the app to download that stuff to your handlebar computer should be fully dialed in. |
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6ix
Posts:485
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| 06/14/2021 10:59 AM |
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I'll be standing right beside CK on that hill. Absolutely will never have a handlebar bag. The only time I ever had one was when I was in 6th grade and riding a 2-speed Huffy during the summer. Nope, nope, nope.
But interesting that this topic came up today. I've been wearing Castelli Free Air 4.1 (or whatever the heck they call them) for the past few years and the pockets are nearly perfect. Wish they fit just a tad more snug but they keep stuff in place for the most part. I just bought my first Assos jersey and the pockets hang off my butt and look silly. Thus, it's being relegated to being my MTB-only jersey since I wear a camelback for those rides.
Just doesn't make sense to me. Everything else about the jersey fits nicely. Laser cut, tight sleeves and trim fit but yet the pockets could fit an iPad and basically hit my saddle while seated. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/14/2021 11:32 AM |
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| Hahaha - a camelback. That one for me is in the absolutely no way, never ever category. Not biking in any form, not hiking. Simply no. Nothing will ever go on my back while cycling. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 06/14/2021 02:31 PM |
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I'll be standing right beside CK on that hill. Absolutely will never have a handlebar bag.
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 06/14/2021 02:36 PM |
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a camelback. That one for me is in the absolutely no way, never ever category.
I generally detest CamelBak's and avoid them whenever possible....but there are times / events where they are necessary. Unbound (formerly DK) is one such example....
I have used one in the last few weeks on my 110+ mile gravel rides as well as I have been wanting to run simulations for what I will use during The Rift (and both weekends were hot as f*ck). I don't think I'll need the hydration as much on The Rift, but will probably need the storage, as I'll likely need arm & leg / knee warmers, my GoreTex ShakeDry jacket, a pair of wet weather gloves and will undoubtedly need to shed layers.
My pack of choice has been the Chase 1.5L...pretty damn small, but enough liquid / storage for my needs. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 06/14/2021 09:26 PM |
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A front bag, properly executed, can provide an aerodynamic advantage over no bag.
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/14/2021 10:05 PM |
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Agreed LSD. But I doubt the handlebar bag hesitancy has anything to do with aero. We’re dealing with deniers in denial.
On topic of camelbaks and DK, the Unbound finish line photo of Boswel and Ten Dam has so many “what the hell guys” sidebars once you start focusing on their water carrying devices. Boswel has a chest strap? Is Ten Dam watering his chest, why is that hose so long? Hahaha. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 06/15/2021 09:43 AM |
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But I doubt the handlebar bag hesitancy has anything to do with aero.
Oh, no....that is a big part of my "hell no to handlebar bags" stance. Those things are aero nightmares.
Boswel has a chest strap? Is Ten Dam watering his chest, why is that hose so long?
Chest straps are very common now....even my little 1.5L pack has two of them. Helps stabilize the pack over rough stuff. What surprises me is the waist strap he had, though....WTF is that about?
ten Dam's hose is ridiculously long.....have no idea why he did that.
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/15/2021 09:50 AM |
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| Oh yeah I didn’t even touch on the waste strap. That’s half a step removed from Dale’s Fanny pack suggestion. Anyway all of these straps plus weight on your back plus affecting ventilation are all nightmares for ride comfort. Hell no. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 06/15/2021 10:00 AM |
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Hell no.
Yeah, I avoid them whenever possible....I hate riding with stuff on my back. But sometimes they are a necessity. Unbound would be impossible without one. When I did it two years ago, I didn't grab my pack until the first checkpoint, as I knew I could go 65 miles on two bottles in cages. Only grabbed it when necessary for the ~90 miles between checkpoints.
I'll probably use one for The Rift, but if I can find a way to take all I need with me on the bike w/o using one, I definitely will. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 06/15/2021 06:49 PM |
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2 cents worth: Camelbacks are comfier with the upright position of recreational mtb-ing, at least for me, compared to nose in the stem hammering.
4-6 hour rides in the humid southeast US mountains, you just plain need a lot of water. I would bring Gatorade power and mix it in the bottle to keep the cramps away. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/29/2021 03:53 PM |
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We do hot here as well (humid only in winter though). In 2017 I took part in Hellracer 250, it is called that way because it is literally a 250 km ride into hell and back. It was a suitable 40C day.
That area has been setting temperature records last couple days in the heat dome. Yesterday, it was warmer there than it's ever been in Las Vegas, close to 48C.
On Friday I rode relatively nearby in 38C conditions (close but not quite 100F), 140 k on gravel. I had 5 bottles total between bike, handlebar bag and frame bag. My buddy instead had frame bottles plus a 1.5L camelback. He made the mistake of freezing it. Despite the hot weather that thing took forever to melt and yield water in drinkable quantifies. It did keep his back cool though. At some point he figured it out and opened the insulation part of bag, after that the process was faster.
We did have a couple waterfall, soak your head and jersey and refill bottles, type stops. At the end we dove in a glacier fed river. Hypercold. That river may cause flooding later this week due to rapid snowmelt.
https://www.strava.com/activities/5529241273 |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 06/29/2021 04:23 PM |
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Current plan for The Rift is not NOT use a Camelbak. Ordered a couple different frame bags, which I will experiment with this week. (attaches in the rear of the main triangle, between the top and seat tubes).
between that, a bento box, a tool storage ked on the downtube and maybe a seatpack, I should be able to carry the gear I need and then just use jersey pockets for nutrition and arm / knee warmers. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/29/2021 04:37 PM |
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| CK - this was my first use of framebag. Worked perfectly. Only issue is the attaching straps slightly widen compared to top tube. My legs are a bit X shaped and any extra width creates rubbing. So inside of my right knee is blue. Its not even painful, just slightly annoying. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/30/2021 12:14 AM |
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49.5C or 121F today in Lytton. Third record in as many days. I’ll be headed there next week for an epic ride, but it should be much cooler by then.
CK just read about seat bag contemplating. I’d advise against it or at least try it on gravel if you haven’t already. My buddy had one of those last year, swaying too much in my opinion and depending on how much weight you put in it you will definitely feel that swaying riding out of saddle on gravel. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 06/30/2021 06:21 AM |
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| I had one of those bento boxes and had to stop mid ride to move it. Couldn’t stand it when my knees brushed against it. Part of the decision to drop bike packing— if I’ve got to haul that much stuff I’ll just go backpacking. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 06/30/2021 08:37 AM |
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OC, I'm not talking about one of those big ass seatbags....maybe slightly larger than normal. Just enough for an extra tube, some CO2, etc.
I already have a storage keg on the underside of my downtube, stored in a waterbottle cage, which holds a tube, CO2, and levers. I want the seatpack just to have a backup tube, etc. so nothing huge.
I had one of those bento boxes and had to stop mid ride to move it. Couldn’t stand it when my knees brushed against it.
Yup...definitely something to factor into it. Mine tapers down in the rear, so it isn't as much of an issue, but still get an occasional brush of it (i also tend to have a narrow knee position, so that doesn't help).
When I checked the frame pack briefly yesterday, i had a little knee brush, but I also had a fair amount stuffed in there (neoprene golves and a rain jacket). I can keep the jacket in my jersey pocket and put some of my nutrition in the pack instead and it should then fall within the width of the frame tubes. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/30/2021 09:38 AM |
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| Ah good. Yes I have seat pack w spare tube and levers that’s all. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 06/30/2021 01:41 PM |
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| When I hit the lottery I’m hiring a team car with a mechanic, spare bike, wheels, and a cooler full of food and drink. |
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eurochien
Posts:163
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| 06/30/2021 05:19 PM |
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| On the road bike, I use a saddle bag made by Krieg, it stores a tube, a co2 inflator and a multi-tool that's it, the rest goes in the jersey pockets. On the mtb I have the same saddle bag, but I also use a Camelbak that probably weighs close to 8-10 lbs with a full bladder. With everything that can happen on a mountain bike ride, I carry a lot of stuff (first aid kit, more tools, pump, co2 inflator, rain gear, extra food, a headlamp), it adds up... |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 07/06/2021 07:13 PM |
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well crap....looks like I am gonna cave to the trend and get a HB for The Rift. The frame bags I ordered were either too big to work or were constantly brushing my knees.
Since there is no need for the extra hydration capacity of a Camelbak, I'm not gonna put something on my back just for storage....so a HB bag it will have to be.
But after the race I am burning it 
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 07/06/2021 08:16 PM |
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Bahahaha. That hill was short lived. I saw your setup on Strava and was wondering what happened to frame bag
Hamburger Hill. Or is that Handlebar Hill LOL.
Now it’s just 6ix all alone. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 07/07/2021 02:23 PM |
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| You might burn it but we'll all remember that you owned one. That purchase is going to haunt you for life. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 07/07/2021 09:42 PM |
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This just adds to the DK TT bar mishap. Another notch.
You know what they say about three strikes. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 07/09/2021 09:17 AM |
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This just adds to the DK TT bar mishap.
What? Not even close to being similar! if anything, this step is being done to prevent a similar mishap....
I protest! |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/10/2021 02:58 PM |
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CK - so having had some time to reflect on use of handlebar bag during the Rift, have you changed your opinion?
Or has it indeed been burned, sold, discarded? |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 08/10/2021 10:21 PM |
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Honestly, it was kind of a pain in the ass….weather conditions didn’t help. Between having my number zip tied to it, cold wet hands and not wanting to lose too much time screwing around with the zipper, I barely used it.
Took my neoprene gloves out around mile 50 or so I think, but just kept my goretex shake dry in my pocket if I wasn’t wearing it.
Meh, overall. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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