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Deep Tubular Alloy Rims

Last Post 06/20/2022 05:27 PM by 79 pmooney. 12 Replies.

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Posts:3180

12/09/2021 11:43 AM
I am starting the swap over to tubular (sewups!). Have got some assorted rims, GP4s, GP330s and a Record du Monde. But what I don't have is a good rim for my TiCycles fix gear, Jessica J. The bike was designed around the Velocity Aero semi deep alloy clincher as a rear rim. The Velocity Aero works so well because the brake track fades smoothly into the fairing. Braking works well over a considerable vertical height. This matters because as the wheel is slid forward or back in the dropout, the rim varies in height at the brake shoes. (I use all the cogs between 12 and 24 teeth; often both extremes on the same ride.) I set the shoes to be at the top of the brake track with the wheel all the way back - ie the 12t cog. 17t put it comfortably in the middle. With the 24 it is way down on the fairing but how much serious stopping am I going to be doing with the brakes on a 42-24 fix gear? In 20,000 miles, I have noticed about zero brake wear below the brake track. So, what tubular rim options do you guys know about that could replace the Aero? I'd love both a 450-500 gm workhorse rim and a sub 400 gm "race" rim. (50 gm lighter on each would be cool.) 32 hole. Poking around the web, I saw the Kinlon TB-25 rim and the Araya Aero 1 ADX-1, neither of which I've ever seen. I have no idea on the weights of either. Any one here used them? Going to the CAD drawing the bike was designed on, I see that the brake shoe is 1/4" lower on the rim at the extreme forward than at the extreme rear of the dropout (plus any margin for comfort - dragging the brake shoe on a 200 gm sewup on a crazy descent would be a real bummer). This is also what I've observed but not measured. Ideas? CK, Dale?

Posts:4209

12/09/2021 12:10 PM
Dunno deep you want to go, but I would take a look at the Hed Belgium C2 rim....24mm in depth. https://wheelbuilder.com/hed-belgium-c2-tubular-rim/

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:3180

12/09/2021 12:40 PM
Nice! Wheelbuilder only stocks 24 and 28 hole so I'd have to see if I could order 32 which they list as being made.

Posts:833

12/09/2021 01:37 PM
I had some Hed Belgium C2's plus (28's). The brake tracks on one of the wheels started to pull away from the wheel. Maybe just a fluke. The wrench at my old LBS built wheels for Williams Wheels. Said he never saw that happen before. I think I ordered another one built up. Don't remember. I think I gave the bike away (a '07 Trek Madone 5.9) to my son in law, who never rides it. Old age and memory!

Posts:4499

12/09/2021 03:05 PM
Disc brakes will fix this vertical brake track issue, no? An interesting detail (vertical brake track) that I'd never given thought other than making sure the brake pad doesn't interfere with tire.

Posts:833

12/09/2021 06:28 PM
Hey, I have those Hed Belgium C2's wheels (with DT 350 hubs) on my 2014 Madone which is hanging in my garage. I guess they have been so trouble free I forgot which bike they were on. I have not ridden that bike since I bought my Domane last December. Great rims. Now if I could just locate my brain...

longslowdistance

Posts:2881

12/09/2021 06:31 PM
Zoot I have the same wheels, but use only with discs. Indestructible!

Posts:3180

12/09/2021 06:39 PM
Posted By Orange Crush on 12/09/2021 03:05 PM Disc brakes will fix this vertical brake track issue, no? An interesting detail (vertical brake track) that I'd never given thought other than making sure the brake pad doesn't interfere with tire. Disc brakes on a fix gear where the cog and hub location are changed frequently? I suppose I could put my inventor cap on and figure out how to do the wheel flips without having to mess with the disc, but it would violate the KISS principle. (Currently with the V-brake levers and regular calipers, I have so much pad clearance I don't need to touch them for wheel changes. The releases are really just easy brake adjusts I can do while riding.)

Posts:3180

12/09/2021 06:56 PM
I saw a weight for those HEDs, 435 gm. Totally reasonable. I also saw 335 gm for the Arayas! Wow! I think I'm getting both. The HED to use with 250-300 gm tires (basically modern Paris-Roubaix) and the Corsa Speeds I've already got for the Araya. GP4 in front or GP330 for "race" day. Mooney and the geared TiCycles will use GP4s or GP330s. (I don't know if those two bikes will ever get the light wheels but Jessica J's been telling me she's a race bike since the first ride.)

Posts:4209

12/09/2021 08:11 PM
Corsa Speeds Fastest damn tubular I have ever ridden. Love those things.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

longslowdistance

Posts:2881

12/09/2021 09:28 PM
Jeez Ben, after a certain age, let me propose that one should not care about 100 gms! OTOH, more power to ya. Hope you are banging cheerleaders too! \

Posts:3180

12/10/2021 11:42 AM
lsd, I still yearn to ride the wheels and rubber I rode for the 1977 Maine International that we rode at nearly 27 mph. Matte tread Criterium Setas on a Fiamme Ergal rear and Medal d'Or front. Is it asking too much to want the weight and performance of nearly 50 years ago that I could barely afford then and easily now? Jessica has never seen lighter than an Open Pro front, Velocity Aero rear and Corsa G+ tires. These wheels would be ~1000g lighter. Turn a quite serviceable Porsche into a Ferrari. And yes, the Ferrari stays in the garage, not parked in the street. Very nice days only. The rest of the time would be on rubber equivalent to what I used to train on with rims a little heavier than my beater rims of the day. The bike has seen just about zero improvements since I built it up 11 years ago. I've changed cockpits to optimize hand comfort and gone from 25c Paselas and Open Paves to G+. (Well I've got some older Paves on it now. An amusing reverse of a corollary to Murphy's Law. These tires know they're being replaced by a new system as soon as they wear out. And they are wearing like iron and refuse to flat. Those green, oh so sticky Vittorias!) "Zero improvements". Oops! I forgot about that little fork incident. Could be argued a fork that doesn't crack is a step up. Though it is 531, not SL with a substantially heavier crown. Edit: those cheerleaders. A crazy I don't need. They don't stay in the garage when not being used.

Posts:3180

06/20/2022 05:27 PM
Posted By 79 pmooney on 12/10/2021 11:42 AM lsd, I still yearn to ride the wheels and rubber I rode for the 1977 Maine International that we rode at nearly 27 mph. Matte tread Criterium Setas on a Fiamme Ergal rear and Medal d'Or front. Is it asking too much to want the weight and performance of nearly 50 years ago that I could barely afford then and easily now? Jessica has never seen lighter than an Open Pro front, Velocity Aero rear and Corsa G+ tires. These wheels would be ~1000g lighter. Turn a quite serviceable Porsche into a Ferrari. And yes, the Ferrari stays in the garage, not parked in the street. Very nice days only. The rest of the time would be on rubber equivalent to what I used to train on with rims a little heavier than my beater rims of the day. The bike has seen just about zero improvements since I built it up 11 years ago. I've changed cockpits to optimize hand comfort and gone from 25c Paselas and Open Paves to G+. (Well I've got some older Paves on it now. An amusing reverse of a corollary to Murphy's Law. These tires know they're being replaced by a new system as soon as they wear out. And they are wearing like iron and refuse to flat. Those green, oh so sticky Vittorias!) "Zero improvements". Oops! I forgot about that little fork incident. Could be argued a fork that doesn't crack is a step up. Though it is 531, not SL with a substantially heavier crown. Edit: those cheerleaders. A crazy I don't need. They don't stay in the garage when not being used. Well, the former Portland fix gear HQ owner still has his goods and loves parting with them. Got 2 deep V rims, one of which was on a Miche single sided hub. Full velodrome for one of those guys with massive quads. 3X with probably 13g spokes. I've been picking up Mavic rims, 2 sets of rather different GP4s, a GL330 and a 440g with Corsa Control G+. Put the older, shallower GP4s with 28c Corsa Control G+ on the Money. Not light but the ride! Last night built up the 330 and cleaned up the V wheel. First glue coats to both. 23c Rubinos are mounted. Took them around the block for the glue stick. First impression - OMG!!! I haven't ridden wheels like this in 40 years. It was all I could do to just mosey on still wet glue. And the bike - Jessica J! This is what she was made for! Never crossed my mind with all the CAD drawings and calculations I made but I knew it first ride; that she was only tame because she was saddled with heavy rims and clinchers. She still has only training weight sewups, but she's been unburdened. Just rolling around slowly trying to get my commuter shoes in the toestraps - it was like getting on my Fuji 45 years ago when it was wearing its race wheels. And now - going for a ride! Easy. I never push first glue jobs. Might let Jessica wind it up a little on some nice straight stuff. Gonna put the 16 tooth on. 17's just too easy!

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