huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 04/06/2022 03:38 PM |
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Looking to upgrade the stock wheels that came on my 3T Exploro Racemax within a lower budget of $1500, they also need to be available with Campag's N3W freehub. This is for the ROAD. The stock wheels have been fine, but heavy at 2kg, and not aero in any manner. It is hilly and mountainous here, not flat, so I am not looking for a super deep aero wheel, but thinking of something in the 35 to 50mm range, around the 1500 gram mark.
So far, my favorite is the Parcours Ronde, but am not sure what taxes and import fees will be. Hunt seems to have good price points, but have heard the hubs might not be so durable (will find out I guess as I have some 650b's from them for my big gravel). Scribe is somewhat in the same boat.
Any ideas, suggestions?
Gracias. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/06/2022 03:54 PM |
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ENVE Foundation 45 wheels ....hit right around your ballpark for price and are excellent wheels.
Disclaimer - I am riding for the ENVE Racing team this year, but they would have been my suggestion anyway.
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 04/06/2022 04:39 PM |
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Thanks, CK. Too expensive. $1500 would be my limit. At $1750, I would have to add the N3W hubs and that would add another $100.
I would also like a little wider, hopefully get to be able to go to a 28mm tire and maintain the 105 rule. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/06/2022 04:53 PM |
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Ack...the raised the price. They used to be $1500, I think.
Take a look at the Zipp 303S....should meet your requirements. $1327
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/zipp-303-carbon-disc-brake-wheelset-tubeless |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/06/2022 05:00 PM |
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| I don't know if many wheels that will support the 105 Rule for 28mm tires outside of Hunt.... |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 04/06/2022 05:40 PM |
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Have you seen the Pardours wheels - the Ronde and Strade? Good internal and external widths.
I like the 303s' but can't find them with the Campag N3W freehub, and am unsure how the whole freehub replacement would work - or worse yet, not work.
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/06/2022 05:48 PM |
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| Have not heard of Parcours before....certainly look interesting and would seem to fit your needs. |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 04/07/2022 09:23 AM |
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So far it's turning into a choice of who has the N3W freehub. Campag has not done a good job of getting it out there. Zipp was supposed to get them but hasn't, Fulcrum is out of my league, Parcours and Scribe won't have them until mid-June, likely later from past experience getting my 650b's wit the hub. The only options I've found so far that have them available are Hunt, and Light Bike - a Chinese company with a distribution out of Vancouver.
Anyone heard of Light Bike? Found them on chat boards as I was looking for reviews of other wheels. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/07/2022 12:00 PM |
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| I know some members on the TrainerRoad forum have used them and speak highly of them. |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 04/07/2022 01:59 PM |
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Would you take a chance on a rim like this...
https://www.lightbicycle.com/700C-road-bicycle-rims-28mm-wide-46.5mm-deep-symmetric-clincher-road-disc-brake-available.html
I've seen that Princeton and Zipp do something similar, but with a whole lot more testing I imagine.
I can get any of the wheelsets built up with a DT240 hub which helps my confidence. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/07/2022 04:04 PM |
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Pretty damn good price.....you could build those w/ 240's for just over $1K, I'd guess.
21mm internal is not exceptionally wide for today's trends, but for road rims, it is a good width. Starts getting limiting if you go much wider. |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 04/07/2022 05:22 PM |
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Well, figuring I would go by the 105 rule, as I've nothing better to gauge on, I am going from the seat tube rear shroud of the 3T to the tire, to the rim(just for fun) and it goes 28mm(actual) to 29mm(estimated spread on a 28mm tire) to the 30mm rim(actual). Around 1.04, close enough. Whether that will work out to real world aerodynamic gain is to be seen ; )
I have my heavy stock will with 25mm internal width and the Hunt 650b wide for more of the gravel riding, these wheels will be strictly for road riding, especially the climbing around here.
Not sure what the extra charges will be just yet, having good experience with my interchange of emails with them so far. |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 04/07/2022 05:38 PM |
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| Spec'd with DT240's, Sapim X-ray spokes and the 46.5mm deep carbon rim, the total weight is 1483 at an initial cost of $1263, but I am still awaiting what possible shipping and import fees would add up to.
For that price, as I assume shipping and tax will bump it up quite a bit, I could go with the Hunt 48 Limitless Aero Disc Wheelset which I know the total price of $1422, but they weight 150 more grams and have run of the mill hubs - but are wider, both internally and externally.
Am I boring you yet? ; ) |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/08/2022 09:10 AM |
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Am I boring you yet? ; )
Hell no....I can geek out of this stuff all day long.
I wouldn't sweat the 150g....that is "in the grass". as my dad used to say. The more conventional hubs....could be a different issue. I have seen both positive and negative feedback re: Hunt hubs, but overall very positive reviews for Hunt in general.
The appeal of wider wheels, and hence being able to use wider tires and still adhere to the 105 Rule, is probably what would sway me. |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 04/08/2022 09:48 AM |
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| What about the aerodynamics of an asymetrical rim? Haven't been able to find any literature testing the aerodynamics of a slightly non-symetrical 35mm carbon rim that Hunt puts out for gravel. Seeing that a lot of testing seems to begetting away from the straight on wind tunnel and going for real world results, made me wonder if there is any aerodynamic benefit from a toroidal, but asymetrical 35mm deep rim. Yes, it's somewhat shallow, so I Imagine that offsets things even more, but do you know of any studies of asymetrical aerodynamics? |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 04/08/2022 10:18 AM |
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| 105 rule? Until now I thought that had something to do with the minimum Shimano level one is allowed to use on a group ride without shame. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/08/2022 10:26 AM |
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do you know of any studies of asymetrical aerodynamics?
I don't, but as you note, more and more studies are leading to better understandings of the "real world" impact of yaw and IIRC, deeper rims yield smaller and smaller benefits the deeper you go. So if you have a wheel / tire combo that adheres to the 105 Rule and is only 35mm deep, you are still probably getting the vast majority of the aero benefits of a deeper wheel.
I also know that hunt has an aerodynamicist on staff full-time and she seems very smart....heard her on on podcast a few months ago. |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 04/08/2022 10:33 AM |
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I'll have to see if I can somehow get in touch with her and see what she has to say, because Hunt has a wheel for gravel that is 24/28 spoked which would be good for my size of human, it is a slightly asymetrical 35mm carbon rim that is 25mm internal and 31 external - not bad, unless the aerodynamics actually hinder the speed. BUT, given all the different directions that the resistance is coming from in the real world, one might think(hope) that there would be some benefit.
Dale, I'm not familiar with that rule - what's Shimano? ; )
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/08/2022 10:41 AM |
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Until now I thought that had something to do with the minimum Shimano level one is allowed to use on a group ride without shame.
🤣🤣🤣
The 105 rule says your rim width needs to be 105% of your tire width for maximum aero benefit. Anything less than that, and aero is degraded. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 04/08/2022 11:51 AM |
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| How is that measured, tire inflated and measured with a mic, or by advertised spec; 28mm tire on a ~30mm rim? |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/08/2022 01:07 PM |
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tire inflated and measured with a mic
This. |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 04/08/2022 02:23 PM |
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| Sent Luisa Grappone an email regarding aerodynamic properties of asymetrical rim profiles. We'll see if she responds or I need to translate my email into Italian ; ) |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/08/2022 03:03 PM |
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You should be OK....she speaks excellent English and lives in the UK. 😉😉😉
here is the podcast I heard her on.....
https://cyclingtips.com/2021/11/nerd-alert-podcast-aero-gravel-wheels-are-coming/ |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 04/08/2022 03:18 PM |
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| Thanks CK...
Thoughts on hookless rims for the road, under a 190lb rider? |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 04/08/2022 04:21 PM |
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I think as long as you are running approved tires and are keep the pressure within recommended ranges, you should be fine. Would definitely check and see what tires are approved and recommended PSI according to the manufacturers and see if it works for you.
Just saw a case where Rene Herse is getting sued because one of their tires blew off a hookless rim, but the rider was not using an approved tire on the hookless rim. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 04/08/2022 07:10 PM |
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JMO, but maybe Jan could be, tongue in cheek, sued for his truly awful engineer on steroids meets space cadet prose that frankly insults the English language.
And he oversold his fragile tires.
But sued for the idiocy of others? That's just wrong. Best wishes to him. |
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