New frameset - M or L size?
Last Post 07/24/2013 09:48 PM by Dale Dale. 21 Replies.
Author Messages
laurentja

Posts:122

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07/22/2013 11:06 PM
I have 2 carbon framesets now with positions as similar as can be. I have always been measured as a candidate for a 55cm top tube, Ridley is a M. I have the seat slammed forward, HT is 165mm long, so I have only 1 cm spacer on it. Wilier is a L, Seat rails about midway. Head tube is 170 so I have no spacers. Both bikes have 11cm stems. Question is, I want to buy a Masi frameset and sizing-wise, I fall in the middle between M and L. I know the conventional wisdom is go smaller, but the effective TT is only 54.5, and I've been between 55-56 for 30 years. Also it has a very low head tube, only 140, so I would have to use 2-3 cm of spacers AND flip the stem. Also it has a pretty much horizontal top tube, so there would not be a lot of seat post showing. I feel like the L would ride more stably and comfortably, but the low seatpost will look a little wonky. I know...not the ideal frame for my dimensions, but the price is right and it has internal routing. The L would be like my M Ridley (which I love) but with a 2 cm shorter headtube.
jacques_anquetil

Posts:218

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07/23/2013 08:33 AM
sounds like, stem-wise, you'd be on a 120mm for the M frame, and 100mm for the L frame. if it were me, I'd go with the 120mm option as it's probably going to steer the best with that length stem. But, the difference may be minor.
Keith Richards

Posts:737

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07/23/2013 09:32 AM
When in doubt, go with the smaller frame.
----- It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1112

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07/23/2013 09:44 AM
I would suggest forgetting about top tube length as a determining factor, since the seat and head angles affect what is the effective TT length.

Try and figure out what your Stack & Reach is for each of your other bikes. Do it for the frame and your position. You can then use these coordinates to best select which new frame size to buy. It is a much more effective sizing system. More and more companies are using it these days.

Primer on Stack & Reach:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-more-on-stack-and-reach_217176
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
6ix

Posts:121

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07/23/2013 10:05 AM
I mostly agree with KR and Jacques, however, I've found that going for the smaller size leads to a slight toe overlap with the front wheel. That's dangerous. Plus, even if I get the reach correct, I feel like I'm sitting more over the front wheel than I should, thus leading to twitchy steering.

Since fit is paramount for cycling performance, if you can't land on a size that fits nearly perfectly, I'd suggest throwing the Masi out of consideration. The price might be right but it has to work for you in order for it to be a good deal. I've found the nearly ideal geometry (at least for me) to be what Blue offers on their Axino and AC1 series. It's stable, comfortable and not seriously aggressive. It seems like many of today's bikes feature ginormous head-tubes for reasons that are beyond me.
Keith Richards

Posts:737

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07/23/2013 11:13 AM
Toe overlap is rarely an issue because the situations where you would have your front wheel turned that much are few and far between.

I have had toe overlap on every road bike I have owned. I only notice it when I am stand still or turning around in my driveway.
----- It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
laurentja

Posts:122

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07/23/2013 11:27 AM
I have the stack and reach numbers from the Competitive Cyclist website for the Wilier and Ridley. I wish the Masi and other manufacturers all provided those specs. My concern with the shorter headtube is that I have a Ti frame now (branded "Motobecane") and it has a 150mm HT, and I have 4cm of spacers. That's a fair amount, and when I am out of the saddle torqueing on the bars that is a lot of leverage on the HT and it's flexy. Don't like that feeling. Had the same feeling on an overly-small Colnago some years ago.
Oldfart

Posts:477

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07/23/2013 12:55 PM
It depends on your own physique really. I go larger now because I want/need a slacker seat angle than most small frames provide and a taller head tube as well. Long legs and arms and no neck. Even at under 5'5" I need a 53 tt with a74 sa and saddle all the way back on the larger setback seat post. Bars are about 3.5 cm below the saddle and I get a pretty close to flat back on the drops and I can ride the drops easily. I know many guys that can't ride the drops at all. They want the look of a slammed stem but it is not what fits them if they can't ride the drops.

With mountain bikes I also go larger for the longer tt and shorter stem that comes with. Shorter stems are better for descending, and work better with wide bars. I'm running 29 inch wide flat bars these days.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1112

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07/23/2013 12:58 PM
Call / e-mail Masi and see if they can provide the Stack & Reach numbers. I gotta think someone there has them.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:487

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07/23/2013 01:39 PM
Which model are you looking at? I might be able to help
laurentja

Posts:122

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07/23/2013 03:59 PM
Evoluzione. Looking to replace my Wilier Izoard which I don't like the ride of as well as my Ridley Excalibur. I'd buy the Masi now and run a Centaur 10 mech group on it. Won't happen this year but would like to go to Campy Athena EPS stuff on it.
Dale

Posts:487

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07/23/2013 04:32 PM
I've got that bike-- Evoluzione in a 53cm. When I get a minute I'll get the reach and stack-- it'll be later tonight.
79pmooney

Posts:1127

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07/23/2013 04:36 PM
My view? Fit rules. A bike that doesn't fit well and have good weight distribution between the wheels isn't worth very much. I draw up potential bikes using the BB as the starting point with the key points being the top of the headtube and wheel locations. That will tell me what stem I need (and if it needs to be custom) and the weight balance. (I can always get the seat position with the right post. Two of my bikes have 160mm setback posts to have a steep enough seattube that allows the wheel to be far enough forward for my weight and allow clamping mid rail on the seats.)

Ben
Oldfart

Posts:477

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07/23/2013 07:03 PM
Ben: Which post has that much setback? Look? I sort of remember a Look ( or Time) post with a lot of adjustment range. A few years back the most I could get was an FSA with 35mm.
Dale

Posts:487

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07/23/2013 10:23 PM
If I did there measurement correctly

http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/thinking-and-processes/geometry-and-fit.html

Reach 15 1/8"

Stack 21 1/2"

laurentja

Posts:122

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07/24/2013 12:25 AM
Thanks Dale. Good info. That would put me on the next smaller frame than what I own for both the Ridley and Wilier. That really suggests I would be better off on the 56cm Evoluzione.

Or I opt for a size L Cinelli Saetta Race Cut frame (the other contender for the same price of $1500). That has an effective TT of 55, and is supposed to have a supple ride. The Masi looks cooler, has a tapered head tube and carbon dropouts... PF30 BB (stiffer on paper but possibly problematic with adapters).
79pmooney

Posts:1127

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07/24/2013 03:17 AM
Andy, they are custom TiCycles posts. Dave uses the excellent Thompson clamp and bolts and fabricates an aluminum lower piece to suit. Setback is whatever you want. Post is steel or ti. 2 bolt clamp that works really well. The Thompson is a long clamp that supports the seat rails well, making it a good post for ti rail seats. Not cheap. But compared to a post that caused a ti seat rail to break and another post that broke on day two of a week long ride I paid nearly a grand for, worth every penny. On mine, the aluminum is black anodized, which minimizes it's size. I get very few comments on it.

Ben
Dale

Posts:487

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07/24/2013 05:57 AM
FFIW, I really like my Masi. Rides good, looks good, and I don't see one under every other person.

Built mine up w/ Chorus 11
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1112

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07/24/2013 12:02 PM
Reach 15 1/8"

Stack 21 1/2"


HUH? WTF kind of numbers are those? That must be the smallest bike in the world. Does it use 650C wheels, too?

Oh wait....you measured in inches. How quaint.

;^)
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:487

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07/24/2013 01:33 PM
What part of " did you not understand? Come on, I was in the garage with the power tools and Chevrolet trucks, we use inches not that new fangled metric stuff.


.... hold on.... the truck engine is a 5.3 liter, not a 327 cubic inch engine. I'll resubmit the data


Reach 38.4
Stack 54.6
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1112

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07/24/2013 04:13 PM
I thought maybe you were giving us the time it too you to take the measurements....15 1/8 seconds, 21 1/2 seconds.

:-p
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:487

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07/24/2013 09:48 PM
I'm not exactly certain why I tolerate this abuse.... I'm gonna call Dan to come yell at you



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