Dale
Posts:1767
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| 12/13/2013 06:44 PM |
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http://www.sram.com/news-articles/sram-road-hydraulic-brake-recall-stop-use-immediately
bummer… hate to see something roll out then get a full on recall. That's going to be expensive for Sram and a hassle for everyone involved. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 12/13/2013 06:49 PM |
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On a related note, I've been puzzled that recalls and warranties in the bike biz only cover the cost of parts, there is no reimbursement for labor. In the auto business when a manufacture messes up they reimburse at posted shop rate and the dealer makes some mark-up on parts. Same thing with the boat business-- and labor is up to $125.00 in my area.
That recall would set Sram back $1,900,000+ in labor alone |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 12/13/2013 06:59 PM |
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That link no longer works. The SRAM websire gives a message saying
"Sorry, but the page you requested is unavailable or its address may have changed. If you have received this error from a previously bookmarked page please link to the appropriate portion of the SRAM Web site and update your links."
Ben |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 12/13/2013 07:09 PM |
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Weird… it's working for me
The Cliff notes version-- all Sram rim and disc brakes are being recalled. Several cold weather failures resulting in total loss of braking. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 12/13/2013 07:54 PM |
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Got it Dale. Probably a careless paste at my end. Looks like SRAM is attempting to be responsible about this. Good thing for them there is cyclocross to debug the brakes. If this was discovered by a commuter, the consequences could b a lot higher.
Ben |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 12/13/2013 09:46 PM |
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| I'll bet Shimano headquarters is glad they've waited on releasing theirs. |
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Oldfart
Posts:511
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| 12/14/2013 12:30 AM |
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| Yeah my Giant TCX might never arrive. I was informed that the brakes on mine which just landed in BC were affected by the first recall and now all the hydraulic master cylinders have bad seals. One of the guys at the shop has had the problem with his brakes not working but only in races. The brakes were fine all summer and in training and commuting. Sounds like SRAM got a batch of crappy seals. Or maybe they rushed production. |
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Oldfart
Posts:511
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| 12/14/2013 12:32 AM |
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| Of course blown seals leads to this classic:http://youtu.be/2OpuuAa7gdE. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 12/14/2013 01:49 AM |
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"Video is not available in your country" Not my day for links.
Sounds like SRAM should have stayed away from synthetic seals. The organic ones love cold, wet weather! But they are loud. Kinda like a dog's bark. (Also make a hot, sweaty XCer smell really good!
Ben |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 12/14/2013 09:16 AM |
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| That one took me a minute . . . |
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jrt1045
Posts:363
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| 12/16/2013 09:31 AM |
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Dealers have already been getting hammered doing free warranty work for SRAM. They get the parts with relative ease but they also get the ire of the customer that bought something expensive from them that broke early in the service life. What a wonderful place to be. Every once in a while you can get a little something from the bike manufacturer but that depends on the relationship and who owes who some cash or whatever. Many dealers are at the financial mercy of their suppliers so that's how that goes. Parts distributors just laugh. I saw somewhere on BRAIN that a dealer figured out that it was costing him like $20k a year in service
Luckily, not too many folks are running around with these parts yet but their are now expensive bike that got shoved down your throat that are now sitting on the floor and cannot be sold. Hopefully SRAM won't come out with something completely new and render what you have to the sale rack. An interesting part in all of this is the myriad of rear hubs. 130mm for 8/9/10 speed, 135mm for 8/9/10 speed, 130 for 11 speed road and 135mm for 11 speed road. this will get interesting
Being a dealer has its challenges |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 12/16/2013 11:01 AM |
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| jrt1045, the boat dealers in one of the states I cover got tired of getting reimbursed by boat builders and manufacturers at a very low labor rate, they formed a state wide dealer association, lobbied the state legislature and a law was passed that mandated a warranty reimbursement of posted shop rate. Quite a few states have done the same-- the net result is boat builders and engine manufacturers are paying a lot more attention to quality so the dealer doesn't end up being, in the words of one editorial, the last 50' of the assembly line for free. I suspect the bike business would be better off if there were similar requirements for labor reimbursement. |
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Keith Richards
Posts:781
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| 12/16/2013 11:21 AM |
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| This is really shameful of SRAM. You mean they could not find a seal good below freezing?!?!?? |
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| -----
It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong. |
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gabbard
Posts:27
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| 12/16/2013 12:39 PM |
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Keith is spot on here. Silicone and fluoro-silicone seal materials are good to -40C and -60C and are readily available. Sounds like poor engineering and trying to save just a few pennies on a really expensive component at the consumer level.
Makes me want to wait on any SRAM hydraulic brakes for awhile.
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jrt1045
Posts:363
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| 12/16/2013 12:40 PM |
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| Dale, if the dealers took control of the relationship that would really change the industry. Successful shops are able to keep the jackels at bay but it takes planning and cash. Debt is when it goes bad |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 12/16/2013 02:01 PM |
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SRAM is doing a good job if making it clear to me why I do not want hydraulic brakes on my bikes. I ride where stopping matters. At least with cable brakes, poor as they are, failure is rarely sudden. And it you are attentive, there is almost always adequate warning, either in the feel of the brakes (as when cables start fraying and losing strands as almost always starts happening well before they break) or visually obvious (as in canti pads slipping off the rim).
If I take a quick look at the calibers and do a firm squeeze of the levers and all is cool, I am good to go. And in the really rare case a brake does fail, there is always the other one. There is basically no condition (barring leaving the bike outside for months and having the cables seize up!) that will take out both brakes on the same ride, even cold down to -10F. (I am not willing and have not in my past tested colder.)
Now that I have written the above, I am being reminded of one thing that does not make me feel warm and fuzzy; plastic parts on brake levers. (They also regularly get trashed in routine spills.) I wonder if cold enough to get those parts to snap? Most I have seen do not use them as any more than part of the lever body and not essential to the brake operation, but still ...
And as for not paying shops to fix their screw-ups, shame SRAM and others. Dale, last 50' of assembly line? Sounds to me more like up front engineering and oversight. Like a proper material list on the drawings that gets adhered to.
Ben |
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jrt1045
Posts:363
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| 12/16/2013 02:15 PM |
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ben
wait for Shimano, SRAM is just a marketing group that arranges for things to be manufactured |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 12/16/2013 03:02 PM |
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jrt, will do. (My entry into dual pivots was in '07 for my first TiCycles. NOS Shimano (Ultergra? There was no indication and no box). So, I'm looking at the big switch to hydraulic when I set up a new bike, say2024. Shimanos. By that time they should be debugged and NOS one or two steps down from the top: half price.
Ben |
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jrt1045
Posts:363
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| 12/16/2013 05:12 PM |
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| heck, by then they will be unicorn infused |
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Master50
Posts:340
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| 12/22/2013 01:14 PM |
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| Too much R&D is being done in the marketplace. Too much hurry to be in the market. Recalls create a stumble for consumers to move in any direction as Ben alludes to above. That said Hydraulic brakes on MTBs have long proven their reliability and than they fail in much the same way as any system does. Very rare for both brakes to crap out together in any braking system. I never had a Disk brake lock up but I have seen cantilever brakes go into spokes and that was a pretty catastrophic failure for these riders. The loss of a cable brake even on 1 wheel can happen at a place where 2 working brakes is essential, resulting in a loss of control. Thankfully this Brake recall occurred at a cyclocross race where the speed was not also a hazard. I expect that at some point I will own a disk brake road bike and I believe it will be a game changer once they are ready to replace rim brakes on road bikes. They apparently are not there yet. |
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laurentja
Posts:122
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| 12/31/2013 11:37 AM |
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| I dunno. IF I were excited about discs (I'm not) I would still wait for the 2nd or 3rd generation because of issues like this. I see the need for cross, urban commuting, and loaded touring. You can't convince me the typical fast roadie needs it. Would be good for the pros who go bat$4it fast down descents in the rain...if they ALL have discs. I go downhill today as fast as I did 30 years ago, when it's dry, that is. Never once have I thought my brakes weren't up for the job. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 12/31/2013 01:35 PM |
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The advantage of discs for a standard road bikes on descents is for carbon rims. Big improvement over even the best carbon brake pads.
But the aero penalty for discs on the road is pretty big and, for a performance bike, not worth the tradeoff.
If you are just running alloy rims, then I would agree that there is no significant performance advantage....unless you ride in the rain all time time (maybe). |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 12/31/2013 03:46 PM |
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I'll wait until that magic time when Shimano discs are thoroughly debugged and are available NOS for reasonable prices. I have dual pivot calipers on both new bikes purchased that way. No indication of what model they were. They are just well made, well thought out brakes and cost under $50. Stop me as well as any big buck calipers out there and look decent. I figure the discs should be at there in perhaps 10 years.
Ben |
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