Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 06/10/2014 10:37 PM |
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Posted By Justin jmdirt on 06/10/2014 08:04 PM
Ok, I'll stretch it even more: My hematocrit is in the low 40s so I should be able to take something get it up to what I am capable of without low hematocrit syndrome. I have low T, can I use a patch to be at the same level as my competitors?
I see a difference here....a lower hemaocrit is not a medical issue. Low T can be a meidcal issue and there is a process in place to get a TUE. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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THE SKINNY
Posts:506
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| 06/10/2014 10:50 PM |
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| i guess it's medicine if it keeps you from dying. |
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| How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 06/10/2014 10:58 PM |
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RideOn: "What is your definition of a drug? "
Good question. My reflex is to say natural vs. synthetic. But, for example, cannabis is natural, ibuprofen is not, which one is accepted in sports?
As to your analogy, nutrition is not the same as supplementation. Eating a pound of almonds each week is just food.
Yep, some fine lines and some gray areas too.
Note: be careful, that calcium that's helping your bones may be messing with your heart. |
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stronz
Posts:447
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| 06/11/2014 05:41 AM |
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| A drug is any chemical we ingest (doesn't matter how) that alters the body's natural physiology. That extra Calcium you are taking is a drug. That salbuterol Froome takes is a drug. The definition is not gray. How we interpret it is... |
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Pin0Q0
Posts:229
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| 06/11/2014 06:34 AM |
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| Bob Roll made an excellent point during his commentary. "You just wrote a book why wasn't ever mentioned and why wasn't UCI ever told." Apparently it's bring investigated and we have not heard the last of it. |
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jookey
Posts:197
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| 06/11/2014 07:25 AM |
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Posted By stronzo nonfumare on 06/10/2014 09:49 PM
Berto should take an inhaler out of his jersey and take a hit off it at the base of the last climb at the dauphine this week right in front of Froome just to eff with his head
How about pulling out a nice juicy steak?
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 06/11/2014 09:41 AM |
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Posted By Jookey on 06/11/2014 07:25 AM
How about pulling out a nice juicy steak?
I think we can just stop now, nothing will top this  |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 06/11/2014 11:23 AM |
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stroz, you are correct at the purest level that the definition isn't gray, but what I meant by gray areas is, for example, is eating almonds to get 250 mg of calcium the same as taking a 250 mg supplement. I would say that they are not the same, but I can also see the gray area debate there. Is vaping a bowl of mj the same as puffing a bronchodilator inhaler for constricted airways?
We could also get into a discussion about homeostasis. Is calcium (potassium, sodium...) a drug if we are just maintaining the stability our our systems? |
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stronz
Posts:447
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| 06/11/2014 11:36 AM |
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you are right that there are gray areas. Is drinking water to stay hydrated consuming a drug? I think most would say no. However if you consume too much water and you become hyponatremic (too little sodium) you can cause all kinds of metabolic abnormalities including cardiac arrythmia resultin in death. In that case the water consumption fits the definition of ingesting a drug.
But getting back to Froome -- it isnt gray -- its very clear. The dude is taking a drug plain and simple. It doesnt affect performance? BS -- Then dont take it. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 06/11/2014 11:40 AM |
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Posted By stronzo nonfumare on 06/11/2014 11:36 AM
> But getting back to Froome -- it isnt gray -- its very clear. The dude is taking a drug plain and simple. It doesnt affect performance? BS -- Then dont take it.
You're right....but from the wrong POV. It is very clear.....the inhaler is legal and therefore he did not do anything wrong. Whether it affects performance or not (it doesn't) is immaterial. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/11/2014 12:07 PM |
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It's legal and therefore should be allowed to be used; certainly if EIA can cause convlusions and things like that. But mid-race use seems to go against the science, which says EIA can pretty much be prevented by a targeted warmup. That is, EIA should not just pop up mid-race, correct?
And Froome of all people should know that images of a cyclist with a bong in his face mid-race sends all the wrong messages; after all he's the one complaining loudest about questions he got post-race in TdF. This won't silence those questions.
So why is he using it mid-race? Is it insecutity about his condition? Between this, the Wiggins saga and other things I am starting to sense the dude is suffering from mild paranoia caused by insecurity despite what he can physically do on a bike.
Funny atlhletes at the London Ole games "suffering" from EIA were twice as likely to medal as those without the condition. So the higher up on performance ladder you are the more likely you are to get EIA. Sounds like a self-regulating mechanism then, like a pain treshhold or the psycho-physical reaction of body to exhaustion.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/fitness/why-asthma-doesnt-stop-elite-athletes/article4445211/ |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 06/11/2014 12:15 PM |
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stroz, that's funny, I almost added a Q about drinking water. :0
Cosmic, I agree 100%, what Froome did is legal. The debate here is should it be legal.
OC, great point about image! |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 06/11/2014 12:38 PM |
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I know, but I was responding to stronz's post where it implies Froome was doing something wrong. While he is "taking a drug, pure and simple" the fact remains that what he did was legal. And unlike something like taking AICAR before it was banned, I don't feel that it even violates the spirit of the rule.
OC, I noted the same point earlier in the thread where I relayed how Rishi Grewal used to induce an attack as part of his pre-race warm-up. I don't understand the value of taking a hit that late in a race..... |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 06/11/2014 01:06 PM |
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CK - I think the article I linked kind of gives the answer. Proper warmup or pre-race use will help for a certain period; it may become less effective over prolonged periods:
"It turns out that asthma attacks produce a “refractory period,” during which the airways become temporarily immune from a further attack. As a result, a warm-up that is sufficiently long and intense to sensitize the airways may allow athletes to get through their competition or time trial without suffering an attack."
A 4 hour race is a different beast.
In my mind pre-race should be legal; in-race needs to be taken a very hard look at because as i said it sends all the wrong messages.
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THE SKINNY
Posts:506
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| 06/11/2014 01:07 PM |
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| could it have been something environmental that triggered it? smog or pollen? |
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| How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. |
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