Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 05/26/2018 11:38 AM |
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Don't think yesterday's performance was that extraordinary. It's was basically Froome versus Dumoulin who had to do all work in chase group versus Pozzovivio who had to do all work in group 3. Froome gained most time with a crazy descent while Dumoulin effed up waiting for grandma Reichenbacher. That said there's so much smoke around Sky and Froome and so many unanswered questions that I'm skeptical to say least.
Good race by Dumoulin. He's shown he's the real deal on a course that didn't favor him. And with sunwebs anti doping philosophy and mpcc membership pretty convinced there's no hanky panky in that team. Suspense from beginning to end that's really all one can ask for in a race. |
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 05/26/2018 01:28 PM |
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Yeah, OC, totally clean race by all...
; ) |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 05/26/2018 05:55 PM |
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Dumb tactic to wait for Reichenbacher...he added nothing to the pulling and they lost nearly a minute waiting for him (across both times).
Fook Froom and fook SKY. It was a joke he was even allowed to start. Watch him win the Double after digging that deep in the Giro. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 05/26/2018 07:41 PM |
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Oh well we could all be watching the pretty boys and girls of tennis and pretend it's all clean.
Half ass as it is at least cycling is one of few sports doing something. But the occasional glimpses we get behind the curtains leave a lot of questions. Those same questions get completely ignored in most sports. |
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Nick A
Posts:625
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| 05/26/2018 07:45 PM |
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| Maybe Froome was lucky enough to have an epic asthma attack. After moving from sea level to 5000', my crit came back low. Turns out I have Beta Thalassemia Minor. Maybe I could have gotten a TUE for EPO? I coulda been a contendah! LOL. |
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smokey52
Posts:493
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| 05/26/2018 07:47 PM |
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With respect to Froome and salbutamol, there is a disconnect in the regulations and enforcement. The regulations limit intake, but the regulation measures levels in plasma or urine. Differences in metabolism can result in different measured values given the same intake. The cynical view would be that high-tech teams would take advantage of this disconnect and push the envelope. The cynical view is often the correct view.
Going back to Flandis, the screening trigger for the additional testing was flawed, but the additional testing was definitive. He almost got away with it. |
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Nick A
Posts:625
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| 05/27/2018 08:27 AM |
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To me, competing in sport isn't an "inalienable right", so if you have asthma, slow twitch muscles, etc. that's just life.
I love cycling. I'll bitch and moan and keep watching...for now. However, my watching has really declined over the last several years.
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 05/29/2018 01:35 PM |
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Posted By Nicholas Arenella on 05/27/2018 08:27 AM
To me, competing in sport isn't an "inalienable right", so if you have asthma, slow twitch muscles, etc. that's just life.
N
OK, so how far do we go with that logic? Should we not allow riders to use corrective lenses?
There is no benefit to a healthy rider from using an inhaler and it does not gie an asthmatic any additional performance benefit...it only allows them to perform in a non-asthmatic state.
The more I think about Froome's performance last weekend, the more pissed I get. You don't "find your form" in the middle of a 3 week race, especially not when you start as Froome did. You "find your form" AFTER the race when you have recovered. No way a rider goes 2 1/2 weeks of struggling to miraculously finding their form....and not just "finding it". but jumping up to a whole other level.
Such complete bullschitt. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 05/29/2018 02:08 PM |
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Salbutamol not performance enhancing? Think again. There's a reason TUE requests spike around key events and there's a reason why its use is so widespread among sporters.
https://tennishasadopingproblem358094286.wordpress.com/2018/04/18/interview-with-doping-expert-werner-frank-about-asthma-medication-in-elite-sport/
(its a bit of a shortcut translation; the actual acticle in German is much longer and detailed)
but but but CK, Froome got himself a new saddle for Stage 19 and refound his power LOL. Froome's performance didn't so much upset me (don't really care too much and the racing was exciting for 3 weeks unlike LeTour) and like I said before it didn't seem that extraordinairy (considering mistakes made behind him) but the Sky spin machine that started immediately following Stage 19, first on nutrition and rest and now some magical saddle switch should be an insult to anyone's intelligence and makes me highly suspicious. It's the same spin machine that started right after the positive leaked (trial a whole bunch of "explanations" and see which one sticks) and the same spin machine surrounding the jiffy bag and anything else dating back all the way to Froome's magical surge as a GT contender in 2011. This is where it rubs. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 05/29/2018 02:24 PM |
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It is of use in oral form, not inhaled form. Franke is referring to oral administration of salbutamol. THAT is likely what Froome took and screwed up his dosage.
It is not an performance enhancer for healthy individuals when inhaled.....but that doesn't stop people from thinking is has a performance benefit.
And 100% agreed re: that saddle BS that got posted today. "Marginal gains".....fook that nonsense. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 05/29/2018 03:27 PM |
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CK, I have read one (last year) that the tests can verify whether the salbutamol was inhaled or taken orally. Can the tests done here determine that? To me, it looks like Sky is doing the sniff show (just water maybe?) and a quiet internal intake that will just pass the 1000 (whatever the units are) test.
If the tests they are using cannot determine that (or there is a way to mask the form of intake), UCI/WADA should be banning it outright.
I think we should call Sky "the bureaucrats". They win races pushing envelops. Or the spin machine. (Just look at Chris Froome in action.)
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 05/29/2018 03:41 PM |
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| I don't know the answer to that one, Ben.... |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 05/29/2018 03:55 PM |
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| Theoretically yes (based on different metabolism) but in practice, no, not with sufficient confidence and not without a whole bunch of complicated tests (that could easily be challenged). There's a summary of a research paper on the WADA site. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 05/30/2018 06:56 AM |
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| It should be like the 50% rule as back in the no-test-for-EPO days. Over a certain amount and we will ban you "for your health." |
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Nick A
Posts:625
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| 06/04/2018 11:26 AM |
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Well, of course, in any argument, there are lines to be drawn. Raise taxes? Where do you draw the line? 100%, nobody will work. Lower taxes? Where do you draw the line, 0%?No police or fire? I guess my "line" would be what's on the banned substance list. I don't know enough about the substance in question to know whether there's an argument for it not being on the list, but it is.
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