79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 08/23/2015 02:56 PM |
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Tough break for Nibali, losing 97 seconds behind a big crash in day one of a three week tour. They were right to toss him, IMHO, but still a tough break. I suspect his DS was fully aware he would probably get tossed or penalized many minutes, but knew that Nibali would not be able to come back from such a big deficit on his own. (And as it was, he rejoined the peloton but faded and lost 81 seconds at the finish.)
To me, the biggest lesson here is an old one. Stay in front of crashes! Ride smart. Stay around good riders. And if you want to win big tours, you have to be strong enough and tough enough to overcome the s*** you did not plan on. In this case, that would have meant Nibali and his Astana teammates going a step harder to get him back on, then stay on regardless of how hard it gets. For an example of going that step further and it working out to an eventual tour win, see Contador after he was caught up behind a crash in the cobbled stage 5 years ago when he chased solo for an hour or more to finally catch the second group, then do his best top stay in that, all the time nursing a dying rear wheel. I suspect Nibali's DS knew he did not have that in him today and this was a lose-lose situation.
Ben
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 08/23/2015 05:49 PM |
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That's a heck of s sticky bottle!
Watch the video.. you'd laugh out loud at how flagrant it was
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSQW8OX8VqA |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 08/23/2015 07:28 PM |
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I find it hard to classify blatant cheating like that a "tough break"!! 
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/23/2015 09:23 PM |
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| Minority report: This fan thinks 10 minutes would have been a better punishment than banishment. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 08/24/2015 12:17 AM |
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The tough break was getting caught behind the crash. Given his strength and conditioning, it probably sank his Vuelta. I am guessing both Nibali and the driver knew this and therefor they had little to lose.
Ben |
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zootracer
Posts:833
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| 08/24/2015 09:42 AM |
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| I don't know how long he hung onto that team car, but it was pretty blatant.... |
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SideBySide
Posts:444
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| 08/24/2015 12:06 PM |
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| That was blatant. They had no choice. He might as well have climbed into the car. |
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Gonzo Cyclist
Posts:568
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| 08/24/2015 12:37 PM |
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whoa, pretty blatant for sure. I have always liked Nibali, but it seems like he has become one huge whiney baby lately, pointing the finger at everyone else for his troubles it seems
Strava that segment! ha ha ha Forgot to turn mine off the day after an MTB ride, we drove up the mtn for the heck of it, crushed everyone's time!!
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 08/24/2015 06:02 PM |
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The best part was the field sitting up in a WTH moment as Nibs motored away.
Would have loved to have heard those conversations.
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Ride On
Posts:537
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| 08/24/2015 06:31 PM |
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Gives my pause about his comments about everyone does it.
Am I to infer from that he thinks it's ok to use PEDs ? Since you know everyone else is doing it in his mind ? |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/24/2015 08:09 PM |
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| That would be yes. |
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Master50
Posts:340
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| 08/24/2015 10:25 PM |
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Posted By Frederick Jones on 08/23/2015 09:23 PM
Minority report: This fan thinks 10 minutes would have been a better punishment than banishment.
he would have lost less than that if he did it by the rules. not the first time he has been caught at this.
Funny how cheaters always have an excuse when they get caught. |
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Nick A
Posts:625
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| 08/25/2015 08:27 PM |
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Went to check the link...it's not just missing, the account has been suspended! Dang.
N |
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Nick A
Posts:625
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| 08/25/2015 08:41 PM |
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| OK, so I watched it. What about this thought? In American football, or basketball, it's not unusual to intentionally foul. If you're beat down field by a receiver, you're going to commit pass interference...and likely get the penalty.
But you make a calculated decision, that this is better than a possible touchdown. So, if you blatantly hold onto a car, in front of a dozen guys and a helicopter, could that just be a strategy decision? (Take the time hit, but live another day?) Now, in stick an ball sports, penalties change as they crack down on things, and they decide they're going to be more harsh and what not...and maybe that's what happened here. Not necessarily defending it, but just perhaps a devil's advocate position. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/25/2015 09:23 PM |
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| I like the analogies. In professional soccer, an analogous "professional foul " earns a yellow card, not a disqualification. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 08/25/2015 11:23 PM |
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As i recall, the rules are very specific that you must complete the whole course riding your bike. Yes, exceptions are made for doctor's visits and mechanicals. Sticky bottles are regularly used and quite commonly penalized. But what we saw here was more like Nibali getting a ride on a bus. (Which has been done in the past in the TdF and the rider disqualified when he was caught.) To stay within the rules (and precedents) I think they had to look at this as a step beyond a sticky bottle, more like a bus ride. Plus this decisive penalty will serve as good deterrent. Just penalizing him leaves room for DSs deciding how far to push things.
As I said above, I suspect Nibali and his DS knew he was toast without outside help; that he did not have to fitness or heart to pull off the required chase, then survive the finish. Hence I think they felt they had little to lose. I like the penalty he got.
Ben |
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smokey52
Posts:493
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| 08/26/2015 07:14 AM |
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two points:
Maybe Nibbles was the victim of revenge - Froome put super-glue on the water bottle in retaliation for the TdF 19th ride away.
Staying with the soccer analogy - red card, not yellow. He should miss the next competition too. |
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Spud
Posts:525
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| 08/26/2015 08:48 AM |
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| The question here is , how long has this been going on? You know, before the cameras were capturing every move the riders make. I would think, a heck of a long time. Jeezus, they even get caught in the act of a nature break. Nibali deserves what was handed to him, according to the rules. |
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Nick A
Posts:625
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| 08/26/2015 02:26 PM |
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For those of us on the wrong side of the Atlantic, we're at a disadvantage by not being able to witness behind the scenes. But I remember the photos in Miroir du Cyclisme of fans pushing the hopelessly dropped up the mountains.
N |
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