Tour de France Spoiler thread
Last Post 07/26/2017 07:05 PM by Mike Shea. 99 Replies.
Author Messages
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/04/2017 10:47 AM
Relegate Sagan or give him a pass? Looks like a close call to me.
DonnaMobile

Posts:43

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07/04/2017 10:56 AM
If you just see the video it certainly looks like Sagan's elbow caused Cav to crash. However, the Italian network showed a photo that shows Sagan's elbow out, but with Cav already fallen halfway to the pavement. That plus Sagan's contorted body position seemed to indicate that he was trying to keep his balance after being touched (by Cav?). The Italian experts (including Ale-Jet Petacchi) are of that opinion.
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/04/2017 11:01 AM
The aussie commentators on NBCSN gold also said the elbow looked like an attempt to keep his balance AFTER Cav started going down. But he did not keep his line. Tough call. If he took out a Frenchman, it would be easier . . .
DonnaMobile

Posts:43

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07/04/2017 11:11 AM
However, former pro Silvio Martinello disagrees and says Sagan called Cav to fall. They also noted that Demare deviated from his line and could have caused Bouhanni to crash.
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/04/2017 11:25 AM
They relegated him. Seems reasonable.
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/04/2017 11:47 AM
Definitely Sagan's at fault and he's lucky they keep him in race. Its not just the elbow, he basically runs Cav off the road. Pretty cut and dry.
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/04/2017 01:53 PM
Wow, they threw him out.
Dale

Posts:953

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07/04/2017 04:31 PM
Looking at the slo-mo replays, and frame-by-frame it looks like Cav doing what he does best... trying to stick his bike where it won't fit. He's done this with impunity time and time gain without consequence and now Sagan gets tossed!?! Stupid call. Tour, you're dead to me!

Bring on the Vuelta
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/04/2017 04:42 PM
Funny how Sunweb DS warned team about Sagan pre-stage after a triple hit on Bling Matthews yesterday during intermediate stage. Greipel had also been on receiving end. Something was brewing with Sagan.

My only real question is why the initial relegation and points penalty got turned into a full DQ. What happened in the half hour between, what changed their mind? ASO, UCI or did race jury decide to set the example the said they were going to set.
Allez Allez

Posts:3

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07/04/2017 05:21 PM
A couple of things:

Look at Cav's head in relation to Sagan's torso.
Track Cav's wheels as they move towards Sagan (not after contact, when Cav is tilting away, but before)
Look at Sagan's knees, and how they swing away, to his left, away from Cav.
Sagan is REACTING to contact, not creating it.
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/04/2017 07:00 PM
I agree. More cycling capriciousness.
If Sagan was French . . .

With no real leadout train, Sagan has been a privateer for years, grabbing wheels and shooting for holes as best he could. And he could very well.
 Perhaps it caught up with him today?

I would take this better if Sagan was a jerk, like the young Cav (not the current Cav who is a class act.) But Sagan is not a jerk.

Unhappy fan.


Master50

Posts:332

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07/04/2017 07:08 PM
I think a lot of these comments must have been made before Sagan was interviewed. He went immediately to apologize to Cav so he knew he was a bad boy.

the original call was points and $$ but the comms later found more information and decided to increase the penalty. I am sad to read this as Sagan is just so popular. I just hope he was not victim of the he is so popular that in order to show fairness we DQ him sort of logic.
Nick A

Posts:525

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07/04/2017 07:10 PM
Put me in the too close to call camp... However, it seems that crashing in sprints is becoming too common.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/04/2017 07:38 PM
I'm not a Sagan fan, but I am surprised by this decision. Not saying Sagan is blameless, but Cav was definitely trying to squeeze into a slot that was rapidly closing. Initial contact seems to Ave been caused by Cav, but Sagan definitely flicked him. I think the question is whether it was self-preservation or malice?

Unfortunately, we'll never know...all we can do is speculate.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/04/2017 11:47 PM
Exactly Master50. Sagan isn't exactly the apologetic type. There's only one scenario where he makes those apologies.
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/04/2017 11:55 PM
I actually like the race jury's decision. I think both party were wrong here. Sagan came over, Cav stuck his nose where it didn't belong. Both paid a big penalty. (Sagan came off lighter. $$s being less painful to part with than skin and bone.)

What this decision makes clear is the point hold your line. We will penalize. WC stripes won't give you a bye. Nor will world-wide popularity.

Ben
jookey

Posts:170

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07/05/2017 06:50 AM
Frenchman now in green. Conspiracy theory on why the DQ.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/05/2017 09:39 AM
WTF is BMC doing?!?!? They are sitting on the front, doing all the work on this stage.....but SKY has the jersey AND the overall favorite. FFS, let them do the work!!

I get that they are trying to set Porte up, but let SKY burn the matches.....it may not matter today, but could surely make an impact in the third week.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Nick A

Posts:525

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07/05/2017 09:54 AM
Quick return to yesterday's sprint. If Cav hadn't been injured to the point that he couldn't continue, and they had punished them both severely, there'd be fewer dangerous moves in the sprints. I don't like when cycling becomes a contact sport.

Nick
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/05/2017 10:33 AM
Well, my prognostication of Froome locking up the race today was clearly wrong....

Still don't understand what BMC was doing....for a team, a GT is "death by a thouhsand paper cuts". Whoever bleeds less, wins.....BMC should ahve let SKY do all the work today. There is no need to "make a statement" or "ride strong" to set Porte up. Save your matches for when they matter.

So did Aru rise as a potential challenger today? POssibly, IMO....i believe he is a good descender (correct me if I am wrong) and with only 2 summit finishes left, but a smattering of descents to the finish, the could bode well for him.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/05/2017 09:49 PM
LOL...as an "expert" to discuss the Sagan DQ, NBCSports brought in the reknowned sprinter, la grimauve himself, Andy Schleck.

Seriously?

Pssst...NBC Sports, you suck. Dump Phil & Paul and their cast of cronies and start new. The coverage is literally unwatchable now.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/05/2017 11:15 PM
CK, just wow! "And to bring you up to date on the big train wreck, we bring you the famous porter, ..."

Ben
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/06/2017 12:34 AM
CK as to what BMC are doing I think Tim Wellens figured it
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/06/2017 08:52 AM
The blowback on the Sagan DQ is substantial. Some are simply "He's too wonderful for cycling to DQ" but most are "his infraction was not that serious. Cav shooting for a closing hole was a gamble and he bears some responsibility, too". 
Now Bora is going to the CAS asking for reinstatement, good luck with that. If they get a miraculous yes, Le Tour could say: Fine: Just make up the stages you missed within the time limit and you're back in.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/06/2017 09:18 AM
Posted By Orange Crush on 07/06/2017 12:34 AM
CK as to what BMC are doing I think Tim Wellens figured it


I missed it....what did he say?
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/06/2017 09:38 AM
He said BMC strategy was to hand yellow to Froome so he has to go to all the ceremonies and wear him out that way.
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/06/2017 10:07 AM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 07/06/2017 08:52 AM
The blowback on the Sagan DQ is substantial. Some are simply "He's too wonderful for cycling to DQ" but most are "his infraction was not that serious. Cav shooting for a closing hole was a gamble and he bears some responsibility, too". 
Now Bora is going to the CAS asking for reinstatement, good luck with that. If they get a miraculous yes, Le Tour could say: Fine: Just make up the stages you missed within the time limit and you're back in.

Except Cavendish was there the whole time.  Look at the footage long before.  Demare, Sagan and that whole bunch were entirely on the left side of the road.  Cavendish was the only rider on the right.  Demare took everyone maybe 2 or 3 meters to the right.  Sagan can argue Damare took him over to the point where he was closing Cavendish's lane, but not that Cavendish wasn't there when he got there.

Cavendish's error?  Not conceding and hitting his brakes but instead fighting like a tomcat you are trying to put in a cage.  (The headbutt.)  But that lane was his all along.  And I won't for a second believe Sagan wasn't fully aware of him.  Sagan is a world class athlete, not just a dumb powerhouse on a bike.

Ben
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/06/2017 10:46 AM
Demare headbutted two guys today along the right side....what action will the race jury take against him? At a minimum, he should be relegated, IMO.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/06/2017 10:49 AM
Demare weaves around just like yesterday. He's French.
Red Tornado

Posts:148

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07/06/2017 11:13 AM
That whole sprint/jury decision is a massive cluster. Here's how I see it (being as objective as I can)..... 1. Demare's first move, to the right, forced Sagan (and maybe another, can't remember) to the right resulting in him slamming the door on Cavendish. I believe Sagan had to know "someone" was back there, maybe not who or how close, but he had to have known. Did momentum carry him too far to the right? Maybe, but only Sagan knows for sure. 2. Cavendish, being his normal dangerous/reckless self, kept the hammer down and tried to make a hole where there no longer was one. The resulting head-butt to Sagan knocked them both off balance but Cav, not realizing he was tangling with an exceptional bike handler and maybe too off-balance himself at that point, got the worst of it (karma, if you ask me), lost control and went down. 3. Sagan has his elbow bumped into by Cav's brake lever and at the same time was sticking it out to maintain balance after the initial contact (look at the rest of his body English at that time). At this point he's in survival mode trying to keep the rubber side down. 4. Immediately following, Demare ping-pongs waaay across to his left - almost from the far right to the middle of the road - nearly clipping Bouhanni, forcing him to check up pretty hard. If I were the jury.... Sagan gets relegated for not better controlling his rightward movement towards the barriers. Cavendish gets relegated for sticking his nose where it didn't belong (again). Demare gets relegated for a true "irregular sprint" and Kristoff is declared the official stage winner. If points are deducted, they get equally deducted from all three riders. No one gets DQ'd. Finally, as per the UCI rules, both sides of the Sagan/Cavendish saga, and I guess Demare's people as well would get their say prior to the decision being made. The decision is made based on the moves of the riders, not the after-effects. Gross over-reaction by the UCI "jury" for Sagan/Cav, and gross non-reaction in the case of Demare. A few other points, while I'm going for the record of the longest post I've ever made on this forum. Understand and agree with being safety conscious and all that, but when a guy tries to force his way along side what is the other rider supposed to do? Sit up and wave him through? These guys are fighting a war and unfortunately stuff happens. They assume that risk when they swing a leg over the saddle. Also, this whole thing happened in what 5-7 seconds? None of the riders had the benefit of time that both we and the race jury has. Not saying this gives them license to do whatever, but the jury has to keep that in mind. Sometimes you're not even thinking, you're reacting and going off reflexes/etc.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/06/2017 11:19 AM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 07/06/2017 10:49 AM
Demare weaves around just like yesterday. He's French.


Well....except the race jury is very international in their makeup. Led by a Belgian, in fact....
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/07/2017 07:35 PM
I still can't figure how they picked a single winner today. Coin toss?
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/08/2017 01:00 AM
I believe the finish line camera takes 1000 frames/second. At 40 mph, that's 1.8 mm/frame. They should have a frame at very close to exactly the finish line. (I heard that the winning margin was 4-6 mm. So the loser would take three more frames to reach the finish.)

Ben
Nick A

Posts:525

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07/09/2017 03:29 PM
I'm on strike. Not paying $40 for NBC Gold...so watching the compressed tape delay on free NBC. I "spoiled" it reading Velo News, but it was still exciting to watch. Richie Porte's crash though. Uggh. The older I get, the more I cringe at that stuff.

Nick
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/09/2017 04:21 PM
The $40 for NBC Sports Gold is totally worth it just because you don't have to endure the senile babbling of Phil & Paul and their cast of idiots. The coverage is the Australian feed with Robbie McEwen and some other Aussie. No commercials and they are actually quite good at their job.

Plus you get coverage of a bunch of other races for the next year. With Tiz cycling being kinda spotty lately, the $40 is money well spent.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/09/2017 04:26 PM
Oh yeah...today's stage. Lot to unpack...Thomas crashes out with a broken collarbone, Aru attacks Froome when he has a mechanical, Porter crashes out, and then all the contenders save Froome's ass by working with him to chase down Bardet.

That last part has me completely baffled, similar to BMC doing the work on Stage 5....in order to win, you gotta be willing to lose. Why is everyone willing to do the work for SKY and Froome? Idiots.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/09/2017 04:38 PM
Latest Tour news (Spoiler!)

Mountain Goat Wins Stage with Bike Throw Riding a 130" Single Speed!

Not kidding. Rigoberto Uran bent his derailleur hanger late in the race. Neutral services couldn't fix it so the mechanic told Uran to put the bike in high gear. Uran rode the final miles on a 53-11. Did a perfect bike throw to hold of a charging Barguil by 3(?) inches. Barguil also did a perfect throw.

Tough break for Tony Martin. He's been riding really well and putting serious spice into this race. I never saw his second crash today but the first was a hard one, a potential nightmare, and cost him any chance of staying with or catching the yellow jersey group.

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/09/2017 04:43 PM
CK, I think they are paving the way for transfers to Sky next year and better paychecks.

Ben
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/09/2017 07:56 PM
Porte's crash was just terrible to see. The narrow road had been recently paved, creating a dropoff on each side. Ported just barely dropped off the edge on the inside of a tight curve at 45 mph with almost no chance of getting back on pavement and staying upright. He had no options. His wheels caught the edge of the pavement and he flipped across the road. In motorcycling it's called a "high side" crash, which is never good. (A low side is wheels slip out and you slide with the bike. In a high side, the bike violently flips over sideways. Much more energy, much more dangerous.) And for complete cluster f*ck the crash whipped him into a rocky cliffside at full speed. I read that Aru was somehow implicated but I never saw a slow motion enough replay to support that.
Bad break for Dan Martin. He'd be just a few seconds down now, breathing down Froome's neck.

Regarding the two NBC streams, I switch back and forth. The commercial stream has some advantages: more replays and much more and thorough commentary after the race ends. For example, The commercial stream interview with Vaughters was interesting. He's a good poker player. He knows a podium is possible for Uran. Time to get his troops on board. I'm sure at dinner he told Talansky, you are now a support rider for Uran.
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/10/2017 01:01 AM
I studied the footage of Porte's crash. It looked to me like he had a good line a foot or two outside the edge, lost traction momentarily, got traction back but was now leaning too far in (and the lost traction may have been more rear), and now had a new course to the inside. The rest was tough to watch.

Uran's derailleur got kicked by Porte or Martin, bending the hanger and being the driver of his later feats.

Edit: lsd, that is why I fear and back off or demand real road space on outside turns with curbs.  Losing tire grip on the dirt and sand on a downhill left turn bike lane, sliding out and high-siding is always on my mind when bike lanes are not swept, wet or I do not know it.

Ben
Spud

Posts:482

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07/11/2017 08:02 AM
Got home from a road trip to Colorado, so I just got a chance to look at the Sagan incident. The only question I have is did he hold his line, or did he squeeze Cav into the barrier?
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/11/2017 08:27 AM
Posted By Spudly Crumpett III on 07/11/2017 08:02 AM
Got home from a road trip to Colorado, so I just got a chance to look at the Sagan incident. The only question I have is did he hold his line, or did he squeeze Cav into the barrier?


He definitely did not hold his line, but neither did anyone else....they were all drifting to the right at that point. And his move to the right was not (IHO) malicious in intent....deserving of relegation, but not disqualification.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/11/2017 09:11 AM
Spud, if you look at the footage several hundred meters before, you will see Brouhanni, Sagan et al entirely on the left half off the road and a lone dark figure coming up the barrier on the right, Cavendish. Cavendish was there the entire time, always a wheel or more behind Sagan but always overlapped. He had that lane. The famous footage shows him head butting Sagan, but this is just a tomcat fighting to stay out of the cage. A tomcat that won't touch his brakes if he knows he's right and one who knows every track trick out there. But he was just fighting for what was his.

The relegation? Maybe it did not match the offense (ending someone's Tour ride is pretty egregious), but the officials had stated earlier and clearly they were not going to tolerate dangerous riding in the sprint. The stakes, $$-wise are very high and the Tour (and pro racing as a whole is all about money) and UCI felt a clear message needed to be sent. I applaud them for doing so. More guts than I have seen from them in a long time, maybe even ever.

Ben
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/11/2017 10:06 AM
The French stage winner weaved just as much or more.
Spud

Posts:482

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07/11/2017 11:15 AM
IMO Sagan's punishment does not fit the crime. I'm calling Bull$4it! It's not like he threw a punch.
Gonzo Cyclist

Posts:568

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07/11/2017 01:17 PM
Contador to Rafal: "Dude, I just can't seem to get away from you!!"

Massive carnage that day, Porte's was crash was horrible

I think Sagan got the shaft, but I think his antics prior to that is what got their attention. Demare has been all over the place, using his head, etc.......and nothing? But he's gone now
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/11/2017 01:47 PM
If Demare clips Bouhanni that stage he's the one out, not Sagan. In a way the DQ was a bit random and simply meant to enforce the message the jury sent before start of Tour that they were not to be trifled with. The initial relegation should have sufficed.

But IMO Sagan was definitely at fault. The key moment was when Demare and others corrected their drift to right and started moving in straight line but Sagan made another hard bank to right to squeeze Cav who definitely had the initial room and came up fast. Cav's headbutt IMO was simply an effort to stay up right as Sagan squeezed him and Sagan's elbow may in turn have been a reflex response to that. Both seemed cool about the affair but fans were not, online comments towards Cav were pretty appalling.

And you are right about Sagan's antics Gonzo. Sunweb DS had warned his team about Sagan at start of that stage after several run ins with Bling Matthews during intermediate sprints a day earlier. Same with Greipel, his initial response showed clear frustration with Sagan. And note that Sagan didn't protest too hard.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/11/2017 03:53 PM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 07/11/2017 10:06 AM
The French stage winner weaved just as much or more.


Except he didn't contact anyone....and the UCI race jury is international and 100% independent of ASO.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/11/2017 03:56 PM
Just wanted to add that Kittell has been brilliant this Tour.....so much so that the sprint stages are becoming as boring as the GC stages. Froome and Kittell both have a deathgrip on their respective competitions.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/11/2017 04:12 PM
Yeah, Kittell is on a roll; although Groenewegen has had the higher top speeds as @letourdata has been pointing out. But as McEwen said, its faster in the slipstream. Sprinting is about positioning as much as it is about speed.
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/13/2017 09:52 AM
This may go down in history as boringest tour ever. When Froome boy rides off the road dafuq attack don't wait.

And Quintana bahhaha.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/13/2017 10:08 AM
Huh. That was....unexpected.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/13/2017 10:21 AM
So is Rigoberto Uran the sleeper in the race now? Seems to be able to climb with everyone and can throw down a decent TT. Could be interesting....although I fully expect his to suffer a jour sans, as he normally does.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/13/2017 12:43 PM
CK, Uran may be the sleeper, but he slept though the finish. My tablemate at the French bakery this morning got to hear me say from 5k on, "Go, go, go!" because this was his opportunity to win the Tour. He didn't. Did you see Froome at the finish? He was cooked! If Uran had gone from a mile or two out (or even on the penultimate) he would have put minutes on Froome, not seconds. Yes, he probably would not have podiumed. Missed his two second bonus.

Tomorrow, Uran better throw it out there and hope Froome cannot recover from today. But he doesn't get a steep uphill finish to do in Froome.

We need more of Contador's killer instinct. Someone needs to bottle it and sell it to teams not named Sky.

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/13/2017 12:56 PM
Posted By Orange Crush on 07/13/2017 09:52 AM
This may go down in history as boringest tour ever. When Froome boy rides off the road dafuq attack don't wait.

And Quintana bahhaha.

+1!  Froome may be in the yellow jersey but! bike racing is the chess game on two wheels where there is strategy, tactics, the physical AND bike handling!  Riding off the road is like placing your rook in range of your opponent's knight.  Oops!  Once your hand hits the time clock, it's gone.  Instead, Aru and the other moved a pawn and said "our turn".

That should have been a Tour ender for Froome.  The other GC's should have made him pay dearly.  (Yes he would have gotten back on; he had his teammates but we all got to see a wasted Froome spared that effort a climb later.  We should have been watching Froome falling out of the Yellow jersey group long before the finish.)

What's that saying?  Nice guys finish last?  There couldn't be truth in it, could there?

Ben

Edit: I got confused on the previous post re: Uran and Aru.  Yes, seeing Uran win was an eye-opener.  But Aru today missed the boat!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/13/2017 03:12 PM
The cynic in me wonders if Froome hammed it up a bit today....was willing to let Aru take the jersey to give SKY a break, give the false impression that he is on the ropes and take some of the pressure / optics off them.

let Astana drag the bunch around tomorrow and burn their matches. recover a bit and stay close until it is the right time to drop the hammer.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/13/2017 03:54 PM
. Froome is less superhuman this year. Here's hoping for some fireworks tomorrow
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/13/2017 04:31 PM
Not sure what to think about Froome. CK could be right.

And more hogwash jury interference: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughters-tour-shouldnt-come-down-to-water-bottles-and-incompetence/
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/13/2017 05:10 PM
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/13/2017 05:24 PM
Just another example of the home cooking double standard, French rider vs not French rider. I don't care if the race jury is composed of Elbonians. They know how it works.
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/13/2017 06:17 PM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 07/13/2017 05:24 PM
Just another example of the home cooking double standard, French rider vs not French rider. I don't care if the race jury is composed of Elbonians. They know how it works.

Froome was born and raised in the ancient tribal lands of the Elbo's wasn't he?  (now called Kenya.)  I don't pretend to get how this could work genetically but he does to this day still have some Elbo in him.  (Easily seen every time he gets out of the saddle.)

Ben
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/13/2017 07:11 PM
Looks more like Napoleon Dynamite to me. I like the guy now, especially after his well desrved win last year and his likeable interviews. But the elbows out - knees out - spaz out - Froome Zoom spin is still a bit there. Except now it's slower. If he was acting today, I'll eat my hat. He has won 0 zero races this year. He's not the same.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/13/2017 08:28 PM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 07/13/2017 05:24 PM
Just another example of the home cooking double standard, French rider vs not French rider. I don't care if the race jury is composed of Elbonians. They know how it works.


The race jury is made up of UCI officials. They are paid by the UCI, not ASO. They are re international, not French. The ASO has no control over them whatsoever. These be the facts. Yes, they are being wildly inconsistent....but there simply is no grand, nationalist scheme going on.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/14/2017 12:47 AM
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 07/13/2017 08:28 PM

Yes, they are being wildly inconsistent....but there simply is no grand, nationalist scheme going on.

It looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.  (Amare nearly taking out Brouhanni and winning, Sagan tossed, Bardet taking a bottle and winning, Aru and Bennet docked for taking bottles.)

So the genetics experts have run the DNA and verified that indeed, this is not a duck despite its flat bill and webbed feet.  Might take some work to convince the skeptical non-French world.

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/14/2017 01:03 AM
Can the waterbottle issue be taken to CAS? Looks pretty clear cut. Maybe there isn't a mechanism to address Bardet but couldn't Uran and Bennett appeal based on precedence?

Ben
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/14/2017 08:03 AM
The official explanation: we didn't see the French rider actually drink from the illegally taken bottle (he didn't inhale). But the rule is about taking the bottle, not drinking from it. Pure BS.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/14/2017 08:06 AM
Race jury reversed their decision this AM....but rather than just admit they were wrong, their came up with some BS reasoning that no one was arguing.

http://www.velonews.com/2017/07/tour-de-france/uci-jury-erases-penalties-for-3-riders-after-tour-de-france-bottle-flop_443708

Race is in today from KM 0...Voeckler and Barguil attack from the gun. Coulda scripted those two guys attacking today from the gun. Voeckler because Voeckler and Barguil to get Mountain points.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:953

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07/14/2017 09:42 AM
"Voekler because Voekler" hahahaha.... exactly.
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/15/2017 02:22 PM
We have a race!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/15/2017 04:16 PM
Today was a great example of why SKY dominates....strong team, dedicated to one goal. Had Froome well positioned, allowing him to grab the jersey back.

Aru had no teamates all day practically and was TOTALLY out of position going into that final hill.....boom. Game over.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/17/2017 11:55 AM
I hate rest days.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/18/2017 12:28 AM
CK, I actually like them. I get to sleep in!

Ben
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/19/2017 08:54 AM
Kittel abandons on stage 17 after crashing earlier in teh stage....

Damn shame...Matthews was making it race for the maillot vert, but now will win it by default.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/19/2017 11:31 AM
Agreed. But Kittel had been looking at limit so maybe a logical consequence.

Liking how this tour is turning out although I think Sky will kill it tomorrow.

Today was haute route alps stage 4 in reverse although we tagged les deux alpes on as cherry on the pie.
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/20/2017 08:40 AM
Big day today or skybot strangulation? Here's hoping for a real spectacle.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/20/2017 09:44 AM
No one seemed capable of attacking Froome yesterday....not expecting much today...unless Froome crushes all.

For a race that has been so close on time, it has really been a giant snoozefest.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/20/2017 10:26 AM
The motos by the front riders are gendarmes. Is this new this year? Tough guys. Hopefully will keep the road open. Just watched one push a fan running too close to the riders into a ditch.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/20/2017 10:48 AM
Yup....snoozefest. Last 4-5K were OK, but the top 3 riders were never able to separate themselves from each other.

The only rider willing to consistently attack throughout the whole race was Dan Martin....willing to lose in order to win.

Good ride by Barguil, however....been awhile since there has been a rider worthy of the KOM jersey. usually it is a one-day breakaway that rarely leads to a stage win. barguil was at the front of the mountain stages all race adn nabbed two stages in the jersey. Well done.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/20/2017 01:21 PM
Agree. Pretty scenery and a well deserved courageous stage win, but o/w a disappointment. Bardet's team did try, props for that. Just too much firepower on team Sky one hand, and Froome is not superhuman this year on the other.

79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/20/2017 02:43 PM
Yeah, Baguil and Martin are the shining highlights of this race; the guys willing to lay it on the line. I like that Barguil has ridden very smart but he had not sat back and cherry picked enough points to take the jersey, instead animating many stages (and winning the mountain jersey by a factor of 2! Plus Barguil got to be photographed doing an epic bike throw. Sprint specialist worthy. Never mind that the camera picked Uran.

Martin is the guy who nobody waited for when his crash wasn't remotely his fault. Managed to lose just 77 seconds. (I believe he also crashed again that stage.) It was the next stage I believe where he went to the front and set a blistering pace up the climb because he knew with his back injury, no way could he come out of the saddle to answer attacks near the top! Now that's some hard racing.

My after the race hindsight says that Ag2R should have sent riders off the front to hang out up the road for Bardet to bridge up to. Probably would not have worked, but the approach they took did little to improve the odds on Saturday.

Once again, the highlights of the Tour are not the race for the yellow jersey.

Ben
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/20/2017 03:11 PM
Bottomline is team strength. Reduce team sizes and racing will get more interesting.

Not as much of a factor in Giro or Vuelta but in Tour everyone has their strongest support riders which makes means any sort of adventure for GC get shut down quickly.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/20/2017 03:25 PM
To OC's point re: team strength, Quintana is rumored to be interested in SKY.

Pretty much indicates what Nairo thinks of his own chances of ever winning the Tour if that is true.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/20/2017 05:06 PM
I do think that Froome is near the end of his reign; he will win but hasn't looked particularly dominant. Quintana could be a successor. Landa could perhaps be a successor but he doens't have same popularity (outside Spain anyway). If Sky is interested in Quintana that should give Landa pause. Perhaps he's better off at Movistar and we could see a switch.
huckleberry

Posts:501

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07/20/2017 05:58 PM
Martin - the only "racer" in the bunch.

F#ck Sky.
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/20/2017 06:56 PM
huck, Barguil's not in the GC picture this year, but he does qualify as a "racer" in my book.

Ben
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/20/2017 07:23 PM
And Alberto.
huckleberry

Posts:501

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07/20/2017 07:57 PM
Agreed. Barguil has been fun to watch - earning and more the polka dots.

Alberto's done. Really been rooting for him, but he doesn't have it anymore. A shame his best years were mixed up with the crap going on with Discovery(Lance)... Kind of lessened his talent in the public eye IMO - but not in my eye ; )
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/20/2017 08:33 PM
Agreed that Alberto is no longer not a potential stage or overall winner. But many times he rode without fear. La Defie, "the defiance" I think the French call it (correct me if I'm wrong).

It can be a fine line between hanging on too long and going out in style. Tommy V, maybe too long, but he gets a nod, too.


Taking it (way too far) further,remembering poet Dylan Thomas' masterpiece about facing the most final end.
https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/do-not-go-gentle-good-night
And in the poet's voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mRec3VbH3w

Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/20/2017 09:39 PM
I just can't take Martin seriously. It always looks so hapless and ill conceived.

Aru I is a fighter. Thought he got better of his breathing problems with major nose job but the plumbing is still holding him back.
huckleberry

Posts:501

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07/21/2017 10:50 AM
As a spectator, I'll take hapless and ill-conceived over the seemingly over-cautious/fearful "I don't want to take a chance of losing my 7th place position".

At least Martin puts it out there.
Spud

Posts:482

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07/21/2017 11:06 AM
Haven't watched this race in many years. Only watching to follow Brambi (nice finish today). Giro, IMO is the better of these two races.
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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07/21/2017 01:34 PM
The cat and mouse was especially fun today.
Red Tornado

Posts:148

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07/22/2017 05:57 PM
Posted By christopher behrens on 07/20/2017 05:58 PM
Martin - the only "racer" in the bunch.

F#ck Sky.


+1. Had about enough of Sky. They're doing the right thing for them (and who can blame them), but for the fans it just doesn't work - unless you're a Sky fan. They have essentially killed the "racing" in the GC competition. Even though the gaps from first to third/fourth/fifth were close this year, Sky were in control the entire way - save for a few days - and don't let anyone convince you differently. No one had a realistic chance of cracking Froome with the tempo riding and all. There were a few chances they might have been able to do something, especially the missed turn exit, but no one had the balls or the energy. If the TdF wants to bring back some real "racing", there's already a list of things been thrown out there on this forum (IIRC) and others that would do it. They wouldn't even have to do everything, just one or two items might make a difference. The current state of the GC portion of the event is BORING, and ASO needs to wake up and smell the coffee and make some changes.
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/22/2017 07:17 PM
Fight for GC mat have been boring but that was one awesome TT start and finish venue.

Kudos to Bardet. Obviously 110% spent after these 3 weeks.

Of the contenders i can only think of Uran has seeming on cruise control.

And like I said make teams smaller. That or they need to even out team budgets to make things more interesting.
jookey

Posts:170

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07/23/2017 07:39 AM
The big problem for years has been riders and teams not willing to take chances and lose the tour vs. go for it. I laugh every time I see a team go to the front to protect a riders eighth place spot. Really? If teams attacked Skye over and over, they could reshuffle the deck. Heck, Aru did early, but made a mistake the following day and did not have a good last week. Teams should all band together to get the jersey. Instead they are content to ride around, not gain ground and hope Froome cracks.
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/23/2017 09:17 AM
There you go
2017/07/tour-de-france/2017-tour-de-france/froome-talks-sky-budget-tdf-media-strategy_444543
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/23/2017 09:52 AM
He speaks as boringly as he races....
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:953

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07/23/2017 11:50 AM
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 07/23/2017 09:52 AM
He speaks as boringly as he races....


When he uses a teleprompter does he lay it flat on the table and stare down while reading?
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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07/24/2017 01:32 PM
This sucks.....I had to actually do work this AM.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Master50

Posts:332

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07/26/2017 07:05 PM
From is still the guy and Sky the team. a weaker team might have changed the GC competition a lot. I wonder if Uran might have changed the outcome with a team for GC. Talanski is talented but not ready this year so Uran really did a remarkable job without much team support.


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