Giro '18 (Spoiler) - VeloNation - Cycling Forums, Bicycle Forums, Community Forums

Posts:3180

05/04/2018 11:47 AM
Yeah! (Watching Domoulin burn up the prologue and take a chunk of time from Froome.) And Froome? That recon crash shouldn't have happened. Either Sky put lousy tires/wheels on Froome's bike (or the bike itself handles like crap) or Froome's bike handling was leaving a lot to be desired. Looking again, maybe his crash started on the cross-walk paint. Still ... Marginal gains. Hmmphhhhh. A standard road bike with good gripping tires would have served Froome better. Ben

Posts:4499

05/04/2018 12:25 PM
It sound like there was a (wo)man hole cover that played a role. Dumoulin...game on.

Posts:3180

05/04/2018 02:11 PM
So Froome did his reconnaissance and found that troublesome manhole cover. Job well done!

Posts:2881

05/04/2018 09:06 PM
Asthma medication deficit. It happens.

Posts:3180

05/05/2018 06:17 PM
Q-S yet again! The cobbles are over, The Ardeens (sp) are over. Aren't they supposed to let up and let others win? Unrelated - Viviani looks way too muscular to be winning 100 mile bike races. Ben

Posts:525

05/07/2018 10:31 AM
Great photo capturing the amount of torque put out from a sprinter.

Posts:4209

05/07/2018 02:05 PM
Optical illusion...what you think is Viviani's rear wheel is actually the front wheel of the EF-Drapac rider behind him.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:525

05/07/2018 02:58 PM
Good eye CK :-)

Posts:4499

05/09/2018 11:07 AM
I seem to be getting into the office with about 15 mins to spare on coverage. Good way to start day. Like the timing. Brilliant mad racing in final kms; this is why I like the Giro. Puff daddy seemed to be in trouble each time it gets hard last two days. But tomorrow will really tell who's in the game and who's not.

Posts:525

05/10/2018 11:15 AM
LMAO! Puff Daddy

Posts:4499

05/10/2018 12:01 PM
Posted By Spudly Crumpett III on 05/10/2018 11:15 AM LMAO! Puff Daddy That's my blatant plagiarism of a cyclingnews commenter. They were too fast today to watch final at work but the Hebrew live feed worked well on the phone too.

Posts:525

05/10/2018 03:14 PM
Brambilla is doing ok for not having much race time under his belt prior to the Giro. He was sidelined with Pneumonia, and was at least able to get the Tour of Croatia in just before the Giro. Considering he started at 113 in the GC, and has moved into 34th after today. He keeps climbing the GC ladder.

Posts:4209

05/10/2018 11:02 PM
Great stage today...Yates was really impressive when he went after Chavez. I thought he was gonna take the stage from Chavez, which would have obviously been horrific form. Dumoulin also impressed me....

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:3180

05/13/2018 10:52 AM
Once again, gloomy weather in England. The Sky has fallen yet again. Like the cobbled (Nibali) TdF where Froome was taken down by a another rider then fell again a few fdays later. I wonder if once again, Braillesford sould have ordered an excort for Froome like he should have done for that first crash at the TdF. (Froome needed a Postal/Discovery army around him on the flat, meaningless sprinter's stage. Why he was left alone is beyond me.) At the prologue TT recon, Froome needed another rider to show him a good line. Pretty elementary, but we do know that Froome isn't always up tasks that require that kind of skill. (Froome probably should be given the grippiest tires made for challenging days also. Yeah, grippy tires nullify marginal gains but Froome's bike skills often lead to bigger than marginal losses. Ben

Posts:4499

05/13/2018 07:00 PM
Froome looks done. His head isn't into it. Between Yates Chavez Pinot and Dumoulin it should be an interesting battle. The three hard stages that follow the iTT will be key should Dumoulin do what he's supposed to against the clock.

Posts:2881

05/13/2018 08:19 PM
Repost: Puff Daddy has an Inhaler deficit.

Posts:4209

05/14/2018 09:00 AM
If you believe the SKY propaganda, Froome is not supposed to hit top form until the third week, since he also wants to win the Tour. But at this rate, he is gonna be down a fair deficit...dunno if he can recover. Yates looks supremely impressive....but while yesterday's climb (and stage) was long, it was not overly difficult compared to stuff like the Zoncolan, etc. Big question for me is whether Michelton-Scott can keep driving the bunch for another 2 weeks. The work they have done in the last few days has been formidable. Pinot is impressing me as well....hasn't quite had the legs to stick a dagger in, but he is riding well.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:525

05/15/2018 07:59 AM
Yates looking pretty fresh this morning

Posts:4499

05/15/2018 10:28 AM
Zocolan while hardest climb of Giro won't be hardest stage. The three that come after iTT are usual Giro final week brutes. That's where race will be won and lost. After today Yates will have a superdomestique in Chaves which may be key for him. Yates still looking supersharp but team burned some matches again today trying to bring Chaves back.

Posts:3180

05/15/2018 11:44 AM
I think Yates has a growing problem in Dumoulin. Dumoulin and Sunweb aren't burning matches. (Yeah he has had to make a few chases back after mechanicals.) Yates now gets Chavez's service completely, but at real cost to three other riders of the team. Yes, Yates has been picking up seconds here and there, but he needs minutes before the TT. Even with the three very hard days after the TT, I'm now betting on Dumoulin. Even with Yates wearing the pink jersey, I think Dumoulin is going to take his minutes in the TT, then benefit from a very strong and motivated team the final week. Plus we know Dumoulin has the one thing you cannot measure - heart. (We saw that last year with his gut issues. ) Ben

Posts:4209

05/15/2018 12:12 PM
I don’t think Yates needs minutes before the TT....but he definitely needs more time than he has now. If he loses the jersey after the TT, it isn’t a crisis given what is looming. And don’t forget, Zonconlan in waiting for them on Saturday. But Dumoulin can certainly afford to cede seconds near the finish line...he knows he can’t go with a guy like Yates when he attacks, so he will always lose a handful of seconds as the line approaches. That’s OK...

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

05/15/2018 12:37 PM
Agreed at this point it Yates' to lose; he is in driver seat. Dumoulin knows this year is an uphill battle; it'll all come down to how everyone is wearing down in that final week. My gut feeling is that Michelton is wearing themselves down a bit fast so Yates could become isolated. And after the iTT the overall landscape could look very different. Aside from Dumoulin, the likes of Froome, Dennis, Bennett who can ride strong TTs could all be within striking distance of top spot. This is why I like Giro...unpredictable.

Posts:3180

05/16/2018 12:16 AM
I didn't see that Dumoulin crashed today until I read the VN article. (http://www.velonews.com/2018/05/giro-ditalia/stage-10-proves-things-rarely-go-script-giro_466156) So that's why he needed a biie swap and the chase back. Sounds like he is OK but we will see. Ben

Posts:4499

05/16/2018 10:31 AM
And then there were two. It was a mini spill more than a crash. Tom managed to crack a few jokes about it yesterday. It feels like he's getting closer to Yates level as Giro wears on so this should be interesting.

Posts:3180

05/16/2018 11:44 AM
Dumoulin allayed my fears today! Losing just 6 seconds (mostly time bonus) on a stage made for Yeats. Yeats talked of concern that Dumouin is getting stronger after the race. With good reason IMO. I hoped to see more from Pinot today. More Skies falling. (Henao 5 km from the finish.) Froome more time lost on a finish not made for him but one that should not have given him a lot of trouble. Sky seems to be having difficulties with keeping the rubber down and the drug/blood levels up. Ben

Posts:4499

05/16/2018 03:28 PM
On Froome/Sky, as Dumoulin put it, "I'll write him off when we've reached Rome".

Posts:3180

05/18/2018 10:37 AM
More Q-S, more Viviani. Plus more of the same in California with Gavira. Wow! Quick-Step has certainly gotten some press from the team it has sponsored for years! Good for them for sticking out the post-Boonen dog years. And good for the team for being a winning team with real focus and being a plus to the sport. I won't claim they are squeaky clean but they do certainly appear to run a good ship and do it with no big boasts.

Posts:4499

05/19/2018 11:07 AM
"Crucified in Jerusalem. Resurrected on the Zoncolan" It's the second coming lol.

Posts:2881

05/19/2018 08:52 PM
That's funny and creepy at the same time.

Posts:3180

05/20/2018 01:19 PM
Bike racing at its best! Yates goes on instinct. Dumoulin didn't read his immediate rivals' goals carefully enough and forgot that the two U23s had more to lose with each other than they had to gain on overall. Froome was paying for yesterday. Old fashioned racing, not mind numbing team tactic, done with legs and the brains on the bike, not in the team car. Yeats is riding to win. A joy to watch. Dumoulin made a chess-match mistake. Immediately TTing for the finish would have cost him places and saved him time. Froome is human. Pinot and Pozzivivo are almost there but not quite on both legs and battle smarts. When was the last time we saw a contest like this in the TdF? This is what I love. Ben

Posts:4499

05/24/2018 10:36 AM
Game back on or just a climb that suited Dumoulin? Two more exciting stages to come.

Posts:4209

05/24/2018 12:05 PM
Definitely looks like "Game on"....Yates has been able to gap Dumoulin on any climb up until now. Could have just been a momentary weakness, but definitely adds intrigue to the next 2 days!!

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

05/24/2018 03:20 PM
Finistre tomorrow could explode things to bits, steep, high, part unpaved. Watch for Pozzovivo to blow up race a la Nibali. He still seems relatively fresh. Stage 20 finish looks like it could suit Dumoulin again.

Posts:4209

05/24/2018 03:24 PM
But the finish is not on top of the Finestre (but it is till a summit finish stage), so there is time for riders to come back from that beast of a climb. Should be a great stage tomorrow....i imagine nerves are running a bit high in the Michelton camp right now!

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

05/24/2018 03:52 PM
Given relative weakness of Michelton today Finistre may well serve to isolate Yates which would create conditions for a long-range attack. This is Giro after all; all kind of crazy things are possible.

Posts:4209

05/24/2018 04:59 PM
Agreed.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:2881

05/24/2018 08:54 PM
Hoping for more fireworks tomorrow. BTW, I've been able to watch stages on line using the Israeli TV feed. The video quality is fantastic. I have no idea what the commentators are saying (Hebrew) but the post race interviews are usually in English. Strange to watch Froome give it all he has yet, basically, gain nothing. More inhaler puffs are needed, perhaps.

Posts:525

05/25/2018 07:04 AM
This climb just blew the peloton apart

Posts:525

05/25/2018 07:20 AM
Yates looks in a spot of bother

Posts:4499

05/25/2018 08:13 AM
Yup tune in NOW. drop everything else.

Posts:4499

05/25/2018 08:29 AM
Almost as predicted except it's puff daddy doing the blowing.

Posts:4499

05/25/2018 08:36 AM
Btw all I understand from Hebrew live feed is when they say WOW. Which happens often.

Posts:525

05/25/2018 09:48 AM
Can Puff Daddy pull it off?

Posts:4209

05/25/2018 11:16 PM


Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

huckleberry

Posts:824

05/26/2018 10:03 AM
F#ck if I ain't absolutely done with pro cycling as I am with the NFL. They can shove an illegitimate idiot president down our throats, I guess anything goes. It's all an illusion.

Posts:4499

05/26/2018 11:38 AM
Don't think yesterday's performance was that extraordinary. It's was basically Froome versus Dumoulin who had to do all work in chase group versus Pozzovivio who had to do all work in group 3. Froome gained most time with a crazy descent while Dumoulin effed up waiting for grandma Reichenbacher. That said there's so much smoke around Sky and Froome and so many unanswered questions that I'm skeptical to say least. Good race by Dumoulin. He's shown he's the real deal on a course that didn't favor him. And with sunwebs anti doping philosophy and mpcc membership pretty convinced there's no hanky panky in that team. Suspense from beginning to end that's really all one can ask for in a race.

huckleberry

Posts:824

05/26/2018 01:28 PM
Yeah, OC, totally clean race by all... ; )

Posts:4209

05/26/2018 05:55 PM
Dumb tactic to wait for Reichenbacher...he added nothing to the pulling and they lost nearly a minute waiting for him (across both times). Fook Froom and fook SKY. It was a joke he was even allowed to start. Watch him win the Double after digging that deep in the Giro.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

05/26/2018 07:41 PM
Oh well we could all be watching the pretty boys and girls of tennis and pretend it's all clean. Half ass as it is at least cycling is one of few sports doing something. But the occasional glimpses we get behind the curtains leave a lot of questions. Those same questions get completely ignored in most sports.

Posts:625

05/26/2018 07:45 PM
Maybe Froome was lucky enough to have an epic asthma attack. After moving from sea level to 5000', my crit came back low. Turns out I have Beta Thalassemia Minor. Maybe I could have gotten a TUE for EPO? I coulda been a contendah! LOL.

smokey52

Posts:493

05/26/2018 07:47 PM
With respect to Froome and salbutamol, there is a disconnect in the regulations and enforcement. The regulations limit intake, but the regulation measures levels in plasma or urine. Differences in metabolism can result in different measured values given the same intake. The cynical view would be that high-tech teams would take advantage of this disconnect and push the envelope. The cynical view is often the correct view. Going back to Flandis, the screening trigger for the additional testing was flawed, but the additional testing was definitive. He almost got away with it.

Posts:625

05/27/2018 08:27 AM
To me, competing in sport isn't an "inalienable right", so if you have asthma, slow twitch muscles, etc. that's just life. I love cycling. I'll bitch and moan and keep watching...for now. However, my watching has really declined over the last several years. N

Posts:4209

05/29/2018 01:35 PM
Posted By Nicholas Arenella on 05/27/2018 08:27 AM To me, competing in sport isn't an "inalienable right", so if you have asthma, slow twitch muscles, etc. that's just life. N OK, so how far do we go with that logic? Should we not allow riders to use corrective lenses? There is no benefit to a healthy rider from using an inhaler and it does not gie an asthmatic any additional performance benefit...it only allows them to perform in a non-asthmatic state. The more I think about Froome's performance last weekend, the more pissed I get. You don't "find your form" in the middle of a 3 week race, especially not when you start as Froome did. You "find your form" AFTER the race when you have recovered. No way a rider goes 2 1/2 weeks of struggling to miraculously finding their form....and not just "finding it". but jumping up to a whole other level. Such complete bullschitt.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

05/29/2018 02:08 PM
Salbutamol not performance enhancing? Think again. There's a reason TUE requests spike around key events and there's a reason why its use is so widespread among sporters. https://tennishasadopingproblem358094286.wordpress.com/2018/04/18/interview-with-doping-expert-werner-frank-about-asthma-medication-in-elite-sport/ (its a bit of a shortcut translation; the actual acticle in German is much longer and detailed) but but but CK, Froome got himself a new saddle for Stage 19 and refound his power LOL. Froome's performance didn't so much upset me (don't really care too much and the racing was exciting for 3 weeks unlike LeTour) and like I said before it didn't seem that extraordinairy (considering mistakes made behind him) but the Sky spin machine that started immediately following Stage 19, first on nutrition and rest and now some magical saddle switch should be an insult to anyone's intelligence and makes me highly suspicious. It's the same spin machine that started right after the positive leaked (trial a whole bunch of "explanations" and see which one sticks) and the same spin machine surrounding the jiffy bag and anything else dating back all the way to Froome's magical surge as a GT contender in 2011. This is where it rubs.

Posts:4209

05/29/2018 02:24 PM
It is of use in oral form, not inhaled form. Franke is referring to oral administration of salbutamol. THAT is likely what Froome took and screwed up his dosage. It is not an performance enhancer for healthy individuals when inhaled.....but that doesn't stop people from thinking is has a performance benefit. And 100% agreed re: that saddle BS that got posted today. "Marginal gains".....fook that nonsense.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:3180

05/29/2018 03:27 PM
CK, I have read one (last year) that the tests can verify whether the salbutamol was inhaled or taken orally. Can the tests done here determine that? To me, it looks like Sky is doing the sniff show (just water maybe?) and a quiet internal intake that will just pass the 1000 (whatever the units are) test. If the tests they are using cannot determine that (or there is a way to mask the form of intake), UCI/WADA should be banning it outright. I think we should call Sky "the bureaucrats". They win races pushing envelops. Or the spin machine. (Just look at Chris Froome in action.) Ben

Posts:4209

05/29/2018 03:41 PM
I don't know the answer to that one, Ben....

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

05/29/2018 03:55 PM
Theoretically yes (based on different metabolism) but in practice, no, not with sufficient confidence and not without a whole bunch of complicated tests (that could easily be challenged). There's a summary of a research paper on the WADA site.

Dale

Posts:1767

05/30/2018 06:56 AM
It should be like the 50% rule as back in the no-test-for-EPO days. Over a certain amount and we will ban you "for your health."

Posts:625

06/04/2018 11:26 AM
Well, of course, in any argument, there are lines to be drawn. Raise taxes? Where do you draw the line? 100%, nobody will work. Lower taxes? Where do you draw the line, 0%?No police or fire? I guess my "line" would be what's on the banned substance list. I don't know enough about the substance in question to know whether there's an argument for it not being on the list, but it is. Nick

Posts:4209

06/04/2018 02:10 PM
Well, it technically isn't on the banned list.....you can use it freely, up to a limit. Froome exceeded that limit. That is the reason he can race....it is not a banned substance, it is a controlled substance. If it were a banned substance, he would not be racing right now. But since it is just "controlled" (i.e. there is an allowable limit), he is free to race while he mounts his defense.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!