Tour Talk 2018 - VeloNation - Cycling Forums, Bicycle Forums, Community Forums

Posts:4209

07/05/2018 07:24 AM
Have at it... First, Puff Daddy is gonna win and i’m gonna be pissed. OK, that is out of the way. Now....does Germaine Thomas actually believe he is the co-leader of SKY? Seriously...he thinks leadership of the team will be decided in the Alps?!?! Dude, you have the 4 time winner and a guy looking to tie the record for all-time wins on your team....there is no “co-leadership”...you are / were a back-up plan in case Froome burns out because of the Giro or was banned for his doping case. Push comes to shove, you will be pulling for Puff Daddy, just like the rest of the team....you may be the last one to pull for him, but you’ll pull and sacrifice yourself on his altar.

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Posts:3180

07/05/2018 10:41 AM
There is one glimmer of hope. Some of it is chance and some of it is the teams that are able driving the bus. Stage 9. Pray for a light rain beginning at start time. (Slick, wet dust.) Then the teams of Quintana, Domoulin (sp) and Nibali have to know "this is the Tour! Right now! If that were to play out and Froome had a really bad day, Geraint Thomas might become the Sky leader. Let's pray this happens. It's funny that the one rider who "got" what had to happen to beat Froome was Nibali. Who? Ben

Posts:4499

07/05/2018 02:04 PM
Thomas is funny. As to race and winner we'll see. It could well turn into a borefest with TTT and iTT. Then again fingers crossed it doesn't.

Posts:4209

07/07/2018 10:22 PM
While I never wanna see guys crash, i’m Not terribly heartbroken that Puff Daddy lost time today. If nothing else, it will keep the race more even before the mountains. SKY would have taken big time chunks from Bahrain and AG2R in the TTT, so it was good to see those guys finish ahead. As for Movistar, today showed their strategy of 3 leaders was smart (contrary to most views)...they still have 2 guys up front and did not have to burn riders in a futile effort to bring Quintana back. In a Tour with a crazy first week like this one, being able to have multiple cards to play is smart. So now we know Quintan will be the first guy to launch attacks in the mountains for Movistar which leaves Landa and Valverde ready to counter.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4209

07/09/2018 11:26 AM
The stage 1 time loss by Froome and Porter is proving critical...it basically negates the expected time gains from today's TTT, levelling out the playing field where both those guys should have had a decent time advantage. Quintana is toast...now 2'20" down on Froome, even farther back on other rivals. Looks like we know which of the Big 3 will launch first in the mountains (especially as he will probably lose more time this week). QS almost pulled off a big surprise and got Gilbert the maillot jaune. Impressive ride by them. I had SKY, BMC and Sunweb for my podium today....fared pretty well since it went BMC, SKY and then Sunweb in 4th @ 11'.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:2881

07/10/2018 11:41 AM
Seemed like Sagan was all over the road a bit more than he should today. Amazing that he got around Griepel.

Posts:3180

07/10/2018 10:28 PM
You guys read the VN article on EF's save of Uran after he crashed with less than 5 km to go and the sprint teams winding up? https://www.velonews.com/2018/07/tour-de-france/protecting-uran-textbook-save-by-ef-in-tour-stage-4_472058 Pretty impressive. Esp for that rookie on stage 4! Ben

Posts:4209

07/12/2018 09:31 PM
Looks like GvA is good with the yellow jersey through Sunday now.....looking forward to stage 9. 15 sectors of pave....should be brutal!

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Posts:4209

07/14/2018 08:20 AM
Hot take for tomorrow....Froome is out of TdF.

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Posts:4499

07/14/2018 10:42 AM
Wishful thinking CK. We'll see. Nice to see Groenewegen coming into form. Few can match his top end speed.

Posts:4499

07/14/2018 12:28 PM
More likely Dan Martin than Froome. Today's crash doesn't bode well and shades of what happened to Froome that one year.

Posts:4209

07/14/2018 02:53 PM
If Martin gets through tomorrow, it will only be with a big time gap. Standing by my hot take... just a gut feeling.

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Posts:2881

07/14/2018 05:22 PM
Another demolition derby today. Not a fan of that.

Posts:4499

07/15/2018 10:00 AM
Sorry CK. Martin surprised. Porte didn't. Stoked for Degencobble. Its been a long journey back. Dumoulin looked like a natural on occasion. Still bummed about the mechanical and time loss couple stages ago.

Posts:4209

07/15/2018 04:32 PM
When I said “Froome”, I meant “Porte”. Martin did indeed impress...he is one thought nut. Bardet had a schitt day but kept battling on...on to his favored terrain now. GVA....huge props to him. That is how you race in the maillot jaune!! Great win for Degenkolb, too. Movistar also impressed me....Landa just got taken out by a poorly-timed pothole. Bring on the mountains!!!

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Posts:3180

07/16/2018 11:44 AM
Bardet and Quintana. Bardet showed he has real heart. Like the heart needed to win the Tour. (I doubt this year, but he upped his ranking in my book a lot with that ride.) Quintana just laid low, stayed up front, rode smart and finished with everyone he needed to; 27 seconds off the winning time set by classics hard men. Just what you would expect from a pint sized climber, right? And Movistar still having all three in there? Wow Ben

Posts:4209

07/16/2018 01:07 PM
I may have written Quintana off too soon...yes, he is ~2 min down on Thomas, but only ~1min down on Froome...and I still in no way believe that Thomas is a "co-leader" for SKY. They will still ride for Froome when push comes to shove. I was worried that the GC race would ahve been blown wide open after yesterday's stage....instead, it is all still pretty tight heading into the mountains, leading to the possibility of an exciting race. NOw, I am sure SKY's tactics and a fear of failing by the contenders will prevent an exciting race from happening, but for the moment, it is a real possibility.

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Posts:4499

07/16/2018 02:01 PM
With Stage 9 out of way, if there's any Tour Quintana can win, this is the one. So many mountain stages. Key may be reduced team size and damage count for Sky. Froome had some minor spills but nothing serious. How did Kwiatkowski fare? And Moscon? Those are key helpers. Of course Poels has been laying low and will be important in mountains per usual. Thomas would be key help if/when he gets brought back into the mental fold.

Posts:4209

07/16/2018 09:42 PM
Hot take for tomorrow - a snooze fest. With no summit finish, tired legs from Sunday (and lungs full of dust) and three days in the Alps, no one is gonna push it and try to attack too seriously. The break wins the day tomorrow and GC’s watch each other...

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Posts:4499

07/16/2018 10:29 PM
Another hot take after you flunked the previous one? Sucker for punishment eh? But tend to agree. Warm up for action in next two stages.

Posts:4209

07/17/2018 06:55 AM
Redemption take. Bonus take - GVA keeps yellow. (Admittedly a stretch, but possible)

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Posts:2881

07/17/2018 07:10 AM
GVA is off the front early - doing everything he can to stay in Yellow. When Sky puts its usual headlock on the peloton later on, a break likely will survive and GVA may even take some time. But be really tired tomorrow.

Posts:4499

07/17/2018 11:18 AM
Aside from a few would be contenders struggling off the back and Martin random motion attacks not much action today. Redemption complete. Sky with usual headlock. Ugh. Really curious what Dumoulin and Roglic can do long-term.

Posts:4209

07/17/2018 11:25 AM
And my bonus take paid off as well....(but not exactly in the manner I expected him to do it.). Superb ride by GVA. Tough pick between GVA and Alaphillipe as to who deserved the Most Aggressive award today....but GVA got the nod. OC is correct about Martin...WTF was that move? No chance to win the stage, he is minutes down on GC and there is a descent to follow...made absolutely no sense. Good, entertaining stage....even if nothing of real significance happened for the GC.

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Posts:4499

07/17/2018 01:15 PM
"All I saw today was Sky butts and an attack by Martin that didn't make any sense. Froome briefly looked me in the eye, this is when I closed my mouth." - Tom Dumoulin (maybe he meant Sky bots)

Posts:4209

07/17/2018 02:40 PM
I like Dumoulin more and more....

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Posts:4209

07/18/2018 12:50 PM
Glad to see Quintana still lacks the fortitude to actually attack when it matters.....Valverde goes out and lays it on the line and then when he finally gets caught, Quintana (and Landa) starts looking around. Even after both Thomas and Froome have attacked, he is still flapping his elbows for other to pull...I never want to hear his name mentioned as a contender in July again. Race is now down to Dumoulin and the inter-SKY battle. About the only bit of intrigue left is how SKY will manage to maneuver Froome past Thomas for the overall.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

07/18/2018 01:07 PM
Fully agreed on Quintana. Landa at least has a crash for excuse but why is it that when Sky support leaves team, their fortunes go downhill?! I'm still expecting some long range attack from Nibali or Bardet or Martin sometime somewhere. Will have to see how Dumoulin fares tomorrow. I had predicted he would attack today but for wrong reasons. I figured the finish being not overly steep suited his style. But he attacked cause this is the ski hill where he went as a kid and his uncle who always rented a big cabin for the family passed away last year. So he was going for stage win in his honour. Roglic is also still a bit of a dark horse. He'll be something in coming years for sure. I think Thomas will crack sometime next week. His wide open jersey is telling.

Posts:1767

07/18/2018 01:52 PM
Quintana has an Andy Schleck-like way of waiting for the perfect moment, which never comes. That or he's given up so much time that when an opportunity plops in his lap he's down so much time all it does is move him a few spots further up in the top 20... and nobody cares

Posts:2881

07/18/2018 09:31 PM
I enjoyed the fireworks today. Nibali will make the podium barring illness or similar.

Posts:2881

07/18/2018 09:32 PM
I enjoyed the fireworks today. Nibali will make the podium barring illness or similar.

Posts:2881

07/18/2018 09:32 PM
sorry double post

Posts:4209

07/19/2018 11:31 AM
Dumoulin impressed me today....hope he doesn't crack in the (steeper) Pyrenees. SKY is clearly riding for Froome....the fact that he attacked the yellow jersey group and Thomas didn't counter when Froome was caught (or when they were riding 4 abreast) is all the proof you need of that. Thomas had to go for the stage win in the end because he had the best sprint legs of that group...

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Posts:4499

07/19/2018 11:58 AM
Agreed, Thomas started pacing for Froome once Bernal pulled off. Roles are clear but if with those roles Thomas can hang in that's a bonus. Froome can obviously not be confident going into iTT with Dumoulin at just 11 seconds so he'll have to attack at some point to create a bigger gap. Dumoulin can just follow wheels under notion that Froome is designated leader. As was noted elsewhere Sky riding tempo doesn't just help Sky, it also helps Dumoulin who can just sit tight. Another good day of fireworks, the long range attacks worked to shell a lot of the Sky support riders prior to final climb. Too bad Nibali got caught out in mayhem and good on others reasonably waiting for him. Riding 5 aside inside last 3k was pretty funny to see.

Posts:4209

07/19/2018 12:19 PM
And WTF were AG2R and Movistar doing when they started to work? If you wanna beat SKY, you gotta let THEM do the work to bring back Kruijswik and then counter.....helping them do the work is just stoopid.

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Posts:4499

07/19/2018 12:40 PM
Same mistake Bahrain made yesterday. Ouch, Nibali to hospital, doesn't sound good. Meanwhile with all top-end sprinters gone, Sagan will win green with his eyes closed.

Posts:3180

07/19/2018 02:52 PM
Sad re: Nibali. I watched his first move and thought "He's just testing the waters. He'll go again." Well, he did put in the hardest final 4 kms by far. Yes, the first four waited for him - for a few seconds. The crowds, the motorcycles, a GC rider clearly on his day - this is going to get talked about. Not what ASO and UCI want. Ben

zootracer

Posts:833

07/19/2018 03:52 PM
Nibali is out. Fractured T10 vertibra.

Posts:2881

07/19/2018 07:15 PM
The LSD curse? I pick Nibali to podium and the next day breaks his back on a stage he might have won. Sorry. Truly chaos on the course. Not as bad as Ventoux and Froome’s cyclocross run, but it’s out of control.

Posts:2881

07/19/2018 07:24 PM
I read that Thomas is the first winner on L’Alpe wearing yellow since Lance Armstrong. Hmmm. Ironic?

Posts:4499

07/19/2018 08:22 PM
I also read that Dumoulin was the fastest Dutch rider up Alpe ever. Interesting given that we had a bunch of winners back in day. Then again Thomas had fastest time today but didn't crack top 100 overall. Ok sticking my neck way out. Froome Dumoulin and Roglic for final podium. All been going well and have a good TT.

Posts:4209

07/19/2018 09:15 PM
Bold call....but not a bad one, at all.

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Red Tornado

Posts:159

07/20/2018 09:25 AM
Another year of absolute Sky dominance, regarding the yellow. Just what the Tour, and the sport, needs. Not. I guess they are the only team that is TOTALLY ALL IN for the yellow jersey (or other leaders jersey in other GT's). The only other team with anything close to their firepower, is Movistar and they are a distant 2nd. Typically the only riders with teammates in the later stages, and that does count for something. Bravo to the guys who attacked in the Alpe d'Huez, but it was never going to be enough. Maybe when they were a bigger group they could have taken turns trying to crack Sky, but that would require cooperation which doesn't seem to happen these days. Not sure who I'm more frustrated with Sky, for being the evil empire, or everyone else for not being able to seriously challenge them. So yes, there it is, I am a Sky hater. Didn't care much for 7's teams either, for the same reasons.

Posts:4499

07/20/2018 11:03 AM
Challenging Sky is always going to be difficult but last couple days we've seen how it should be done, with long range attacks by Valverde, Dumoulin and Kruiswijk, which worked to whittle down the support riders. Already, Thomas had to get to work on slopes of Alpe yesterday. This is why its a shame Nibali is gone; he would for sure have thrown in another long range attack. Cooperation among competitors is just not going to happen. That said, if Valverde had been stronger it would have been interesting to see what him and Dumoulin could have done together on Stage 11.

Red Tornado

Posts:159

07/20/2018 01:52 PM
Your'e correct that the attacks did soften Sky somewhat, but they needed to do more to make a real lasting impact. Unfortunately, you are probably also right about the lack of cooperation between teams, I wonder why it's like that? A strong Valverde & Dumoulin could have caused Sky some real pain, I agree. Also, just imagine what a strong Valv plus an in-form Quintana and uninjured Landa could have done themselves or in cooperation with Dumoulin/Bardet/Nibali. Whoops, there's that word again - cooperation. Seems like good fortune, if you believe in that, smiles on Sky more than the others. Maybe not, but sure seems like it to me. They are a team built solely for one purpose and difficult to derail.

jookey

Posts:197

07/21/2018 12:55 PM
Quite honestly, this tour is far from over. Although I’m a big Nibali fan, I think the third week will have some explosives. Big question is whether Thomas can hang tough in the Pyrenees. From his work on L’Alpe, he is second fiddle. That said, it is up to Dumoulin to hang onto Froome and beat him in the TT and get a little revenge for the Giro. Time will tell. Don’t be hating Skye, be hating the tactics of other teams not willing to take a chance early and blowing up. Then it is too late and they are racing to keep fifth place. For me, it is go big or go home.

Posts:2881

07/21/2018 06:14 PM
I see your point but hating UK Postal is still the right thing.

Posts:2881

07/21/2018 06:18 PM
Nibali’s team is considering legal redress against Tour after the crash. They may have a case. It would be more likely to succeed if a French favorite went down.

Posts:4499

07/21/2018 10:04 PM
Note where roglic was today

Posts:4209

07/21/2018 10:35 PM
Was thinking of you tonight when I watched the stage....you may have nailed that call!!

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Posts:4209

07/22/2018 02:28 PM
Moscon ejected from Tour after o7nching another rider. Punk. https://www.velonews.com/2018/07/tour-de-france/2018-tour-de-france/moscon-booted-from-tour-after-altercation-with-rider_472901

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

07/22/2018 02:44 PM
Needs to be let go by team. This is incident 3. What the heck was Martin thinking. Hahaha.

Posts:2881

07/22/2018 05:20 PM
Lesson to young riders: You may dope, but you may not punch.

Red Tornado

Posts:159

07/22/2018 07:19 PM
I hate Sky for being UK Postal (fitting name, LSD) and I am frustrated with the other teams for not putting something together to challenge UKP with - or at least working together to crack them. But there's still some good racing going on at the tour in other areas besides the yellow & green jersey's. Trying to stay positive. Oh, and IMO Moscon needs to go. Seems like the guy's got anger issues. His outbursts are the last thing Sky needs.

Posts:1767

07/22/2018 07:49 PM
Pretty bummed that most of the sprinters are gone. I like Sagan but want to see some real sprints and a legit battle for the points jersey. Le Tour needs a different algorithm for time cuts.

Posts:4499

07/22/2018 10:18 PM
They were saying the aggressive cut on the short stage really hurt the sprinters. Lost Kittel and Cav on that one but the others had to go so deep they had nothing left on the next day monster stage.

Posts:2881

07/24/2018 10:43 AM
I wonder what kind of positive doping tests will result from the pepper spray incident today. Zero tolerance!

Posts:4499

07/24/2018 10:47 AM
Apart from Gilbert's tumble not much action today. Kind of expected. Tomorrow things will explode. With short distance, Sky will have all hands still on deck in final. I expect Froome to attack and Thomas to crack on the brutal final climb. I could also see Lotto-Jumbo and Movistar doing an attack from the gun given that they have multiple sticks in fire. A good chunk of peleton will miss the time cut.

Posts:3180

07/24/2018 11:36 AM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 07/24/2018 10:43 AM I wonder what kind of positive doping tests will result from the pepper spray incident today. Zero tolerance! I'm glad there was a) no drug testing when I raced and b) that I ate a tame diet then. My current diet would put me way over on capsicum. I average probably on the plus side of a habanero a day. (No, not that Habanero.) Sinuses love it. So does my music. You can play harmonica better with better tone when your sinuses are open. Ben

Posts:3180

07/24/2018 11:41 AM
To follow OC's comment re: sprinters. We will lose Damare tomorrow. He made it today but he'll be feeling it and he gets no respite at all. The Tour really should allow a bigger percentage of winning time on shorter stages just to reflect on reality. Ben

Posts:3180

07/24/2018 11:56 AM
And on Tour news, chilling. Gilbert crashing, going over a wall, on the same descent Fabio Casartelli crashed on, 1995. Good news - Gilbert didn't get hurt. http://src.media.cyclingnews.com/2018/07/24/1/gettyimages_1004605334.jpg He was giving thumbs up to all after.

Posts:4499

07/24/2018 01:11 PM
"In other news from the Tour, L’Equipe has revealed that a technical mix-up left Romain Bardet (AG2R La Mondiale) on the wrong tyres for the key stage over the cobbles to Roubaix. L’Equipe suggests that the AG2R La Mondiale team did not have enough special tyres for the cobbles and so Bardet was given other tyres." Uh what the hell? If you're going to hand out sub-par tyres perhaps your team leader isn't the best choice.

Posts:3180

07/24/2018 04:51 PM
OC, doesn't that qualify the mechanic or manager who pulled that off as a traitor? Sabotage of the great French Hope? On the roads of the great French race yet. In most lands, treason is a capital offense. Whoever is responsible for this decision should be given the choice of death by hanging (from those tires) or having to ride 100 km /day for a full month on those tires on the worst of the cobbles, rain or shine. (He gets a dozen pairs. Has to patch any flats in the evenings. Penalty for running out of tires, riding the cobbles on the rim.) Now, if he could have pulled this off on a Sky rider, he would live the rest of his life a French national hero. Ben

Posts:2881

07/24/2018 09:33 PM
Sagan might win in Paris. Last man standby sort of thing.

Posts:4499

07/25/2018 11:03 AM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 07/24/2018 09:33 PM Sagan might win in Paris. Last man standby sort of thing. Another LSD pick crashes. Man what fortune you bring LOL. Bit of a disappointing stage I had expected more action; turned out to be like any other stage except they cut out the boring first 100k. Looks like I may have picked the wrong Sky guy for my top 3. Dumoulin must be cursing that Stage 5 mishap.

Posts:2881

07/25/2018 01:47 PM
I was going to post that but you beat me to it. Missed Nibali today.

Posts:2881

07/25/2018 06:35 PM
Check out the BS Froome and Thomas had to deal with today on cycling news. A spectator grabbed Thomas’ arm during the race but he stayed up. A Gendarme knocked Froome off his bike riding down after the race and gave him some $4it. WTF!

Posts:4499

07/25/2018 07:05 PM
The Thomas spectator incident was BS indeed. The Froome incident was a fluke; he was a bit incognito and his body guard riding in baggy shorts may have added to the tourist look. Probably just gendarme doing his job in post-race chaos. File under $4it happens when you're having a bad day.

Posts:4499

07/25/2018 07:07 PM
Posted By 79 pmooney on 07/24/2018 11:41 AM To follow OC's comment re: sprinters. We will lose Damare tomorrow. He made it today but he'll be feeling it and he gets no respite at all. The Tour really should allow a bigger percentage of winning time on shorter stages just to reflect on reality. Ben Demare either had a miracle ride up that final climb or Greipel is onto something.

Posts:4209

07/26/2018 07:44 AM
As I have said throughout this thread, SKY is clearly going to ride for Thomas in this year’s race and fake everyone out by making them think they were riding for Froome.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:2881

07/26/2018 10:59 AM
Demare had another good day. Amazing to see Sagan near the front in finale

Posts:3180

07/26/2018 02:58 PM
Posted By Orange Crush on 07/25/2018 07:07 PM Posted By 79 pmooney on 07/24/2018 11:41 AM To follow OC's comment re: sprinters. We will lose Damare tomorrow. He made it today but he'll be feeling it and he gets no respite at all. The Tour really should allow a bigger percentage of winning time on shorter stages just to reflect on reality. Ben Demare either had a miracle ride up that final climb or Greipel is onto something. I hope Demare rode that climb clean. I don't care for the guy; riding straight in the sprint isn't his strong suit, but if he is doing the climbs clean, huge credit to him. I liked it when he said that Greipel's comments fired him up and helped him pull out today's win. Ben

Posts:4499

07/27/2018 11:00 AM
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 07/26/2018 07:44 AM As I have said throughout this thread, SKY is clearly going to ride for Thomas in this year’s race and fake everyone out by making them think they were riding for Froome. Yes of course, when I picked my top 3 I also meant Thomas. Listing Froome was just a freudian slip. So my pick looks perfect.

Posts:4499

07/27/2018 12:26 PM
The iTT tomorrow looks super lumpy and technical. I could see some huge differences developing.

Posts:2881

07/27/2018 09:20 PM
Chapeau Sagan.

Posts:3180

07/28/2018 01:07 AM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 07/27/2018 09:20 PM Chapeau Sagan. And the rest of the team. Five of them dropped back with him (I believe; I didn't see it) and paced him. Sounds easy. But Sagan was in so much pain he could not climb fast so they had no choice but slow the uphills to his pace. They knew from the beginning they had to finish within 40 minutes and had already used most of that before Toumalet (sp). So they paced him as best they could to the summits, then let him go on the descents. (He may be damaged goods but still, he is one of the world's best descenders and his escort would only slow him down.) At the bottom, they TTT'd back up to him and pulled him to the next climb and repeat. Their DS described them as all being on the limit. And they finished nearly 2 minutes inside that 40 minutes despite hearing the time limit had been extended another 6. Classy. And yet another of the races inside the race Reminds me of the great footage of a few riders desperately trying to bring the grupetto in under the time cut. They'll remember that ride better than many of their victories. I was about to post and remembered one of my hardest ever hill climbs doing a similar act. It was my regular weekday off ride to and up Mt Wachusett. 120 miles. But this week, I was taking Friday morning off to do this, not all day Thursday. (Had to rebuild the wheel that got hit by a car so I took Thursday afternoon off to build it.) Usually Kate, my riding partner would join me as I rode close to her house at 20 miles out. Didn't see her on the road so went to her house. She woke up, grabbed a bite and went. (She raced the night before.) We made it to the mountain in good shape but coming home were two tough hills and she absolutely didn't have it. This left me with a dilemma. Leave her 40 miles from her home and get to work on time, dog it, stay with her and show up perhaps good and late ... or ... push her up the hills. I did. And my G** was that hard! Climbing seated, left hand at the stem, right on her butt, 42-19. The saving grace was that she was a very good rider. She got that she was steering for both of us so all I had to do was pedal insanely hard. Only once, in a race, have I done a climb that was harder. Ben

Posts:4499

07/28/2018 01:00 PM
Flory Hernandez for the win!

Posts:1767

07/28/2018 06:38 PM
I helped a woman get back in a group using that method and never heard the end of it from my buddies

Posts:4499

07/28/2018 07:13 PM
The hand on butt isnt very efficient. The proper way to do it is to get in real close and wrap lower arm around butt for sufficient leverage. I've done that to guys and gals lol.

Posts:1767

07/28/2018 07:56 PM
Posted By Orange Crush on 07/28/2018 01:00 PM Flory Hernandez for the win! At the very least she better get an autographed jersey from him