New dates for the Tour, Giro and Vuelta
Last Post 05/07/2020 09:44 PM by Orange Crush. 42 Replies.
Author Messages
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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04/13/2020 05:17 PM
Per Race Radio.....

Marca reporting that ASO and RCS have come to an agreement on dates. Tour de France will be held from August 2 to 25, Vuelta in September and the Giro in October. All races will remain 3 weeks. Of course this all depends on how the Coronavirus crisis develops.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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04/13/2020 07:40 PM
Thanks for this update.
Hope springs eternal!
I am in favor of hope.
longslowdistance

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04/13/2020 07:41 PM
Next Euro shoe to drop is soccer. Huge issues there. Meanwhile here in the US, it's still a combo of smart people, clowns with power, and chaos.
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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04/13/2020 09:55 PM
We will see. Sports events will not be palatable unless the general population can get back to a reasonable normal. That reasonable normal may not happen until next year with a widely available vaccine (a limited availability vaccine for medical personnel may happen as early as Fall optimistically.

We will get surge capacity on ventilators and rapid testing earlier than that (June) but that will only allow us to partially get foot off the brake. Not enough to allow mass gatherings.

My plans involve a lot of remote solo riding and no sports watching.
79pmooney

Posts:3178

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04/13/2020 10:17 PM
I hope the Tour(s) come to their senses. If they do this, folks are going to get sick and die. They will be congregating wherever there is a way to watch. Ban them from the roads? Good luck! Are their enough gendarmes in all of Europe, let alone just France, to pull that off? (And a spike in police cases.)

There will be a spike in cases starting week 3 in the general population and there will be teams that come down with it. Some will get very sick and there will be Tour/team deaths. Maybe not riders. Maybe just older DSs, mechanics ... And they will be bringing it home to their families. This will cost the tours millions and a lot of bad publicity for a long time.

Wake up, tours. I don't want to be the "I told you so". (I love the tours. If this was war, some deaths in exchange for hope might be warranted. But the virus simply doesn't care. Every death means more spread of the disease and probably more deaths.)

Ben
6ix

Posts:485

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04/14/2020 08:45 AM
Just saw on local news that Tour de France has been called off entirely. It's based on decision by Macron to cancel all major events until mid-July at the very earliest.

Due to the unique nature of professional cycling, it just seems prudent to accept that it can't happen this year. It would be irresponsible.
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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04/14/2020 09:11 AM
6ix that is incorrect. Just not happening at its original date for now.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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04/14/2020 10:20 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/cycling/story/_/id/29033546/tour-de-france-postponed-no-new-dates-set
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

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04/14/2020 10:22 AM
Personally, I think all sporting events (and concerts, etc) need to be cancelled through the summer, if not the fall, too.

Until there is a vaccine, any large gathering is a game of Roulette....with added bullets in the chamber.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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04/14/2020 11:36 AM
But we do need to open up the economy some once this surge is mitigated. Allow some virus to circulate among less vulnerable people to build up herd immunity, with vulnerable folks taking it upon themselves to self distance/ isolate. O/w the price of a collapsed economy would create even more misery and death.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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04/14/2020 12:20 PM
The economic impact (both financial and personal) is brutal, there is no doubt. I still can't believe there has not been an effort to freeze mortgage and rent payments for at least 3 months.

That said, the economy will bounce back...eventually. People who die won't. I'd rather see a prolonged period of social distancing, with gradual relaxing of people going back to work, then simply "opening the economy back up".

But to your point, there is a balancing act because a longer term economic impact has definite, negative health impacts on a great many people.

But there is simply no way you can open restaurants, bars, etc for months....and likely not until well in 2021.

Since Mrs. CK is high-risk, I will be social distancing / isolating for a long time. I figure I'll have to start going back into my office in June, but I will be wearing masks / gloves and staying the fook away from everyone.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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04/14/2020 02:00 PM
This came up in my Twitter feed today and hits on some of the points lsd raised. Good food for thought....(and if you are on the Twitters, Ian Bremmer is a really good follow. Logical, non-partisan takes on the global economy, healthcare and national security)

https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1250101935237222401?s=20
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1767

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04/14/2020 02:24 PM
Segue into my current rant-- since my wife is the anesthetist whose face is literally inches away from infected people as she intubates them to keep them alive I hear the words "open it back up" as, "Dale, let's let your wife take one for the team" and frankly if it were YOUR wife whose life is at risk over restarting the economy you might take a different tack.

And when she and the others in anesthesia get sick along with the pulmonologists and critical care nurses whose going to fill in? Jamie Dimon or the head of the Fed? Good freaking luck having one of them do your emergency appendectomy, c-section, or provide the correct dose of propofol.

She's gone from having a new N-95 mask every procedure to having two a week. Two.
And where she practices there hasn't been a huge spike in cases. God help us all if there is.
79pmooney

Posts:3178

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04/14/2020 02:59 PM
Re: opening up - I read an article yesterday that reviewed a study done years ago on the effects of closure, how soon, how long and how tight on various cities in the US during the1918 Spanish Flu epidemic. Consistently, the cities that fared best and recovered faster and stronger were the cities that did the most. The effects of the strong post-epidemic growth of the longest shut down cities rippled years down the line.

Two cities they looked at were Minneapolis and St. Paul. Close to the same size, separated by a river. Minneapolis took it seriously and had one of the earliest and longest shut downs. St. Paul stayed open weeks longer and opened up sooner. The epidemic cost St. Paul far more in lives, $$s and recovery for many years after. (And to this day, Minneapolis is the stronger city economically.)

"History repeating itself? We've never seen that." (Nor have we ever opened that history book.)

Ben
Dale

Posts:1767

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04/14/2020 04:54 PM
“We learn from history that we do not learn from history." Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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04/14/2020 05:57 PM
Dale, I found 3 N95 masks in my tool chest last week. I am happy to send them to you, if you want.

Lemme know.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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04/14/2020 09:02 PM
Alternatively to your local hospital if they are in danger of running short.
I'm in the health care field. My handyman gave me his stash of 6, without me ever asking. Good soul. They are spread around among my colleagues.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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04/15/2020 07:53 AM
Officially official....Tour now happening Aug. 29- Sep. 20.

Guess that blows the report above re: all 3 tours out of the water.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1767

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04/15/2020 08:07 AM
CK, thanks. With Mrs. CK's condition my wife said to tell you to hang on to them for yourselves. That's generous.
zootracer

Posts:833

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04/15/2020 09:39 AM
The unknown known comes back to haunt us....
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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04/15/2020 10:31 AM
Yeah, that was why I had not donated them to a local hospital yet, but there was direct need for you guys, so I wanted to offer them up.

Stay safe, my friend!
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:3178

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04/15/2020 11:11 AM
zoot, unknown, yes but ...

I was thinking about our unpreparedness as a country when I got up this morning and that a disease of this magnitude happening was a "when", not an "if". In fact, this was modeled for us 102 years ago. And in a country with the written word, paper, printing, libraries and then far more sophisticated means of storing and retrieving information and a society where the vast majority are literate. That no one remembers or knows what to do?

The "primitive" societies before us on this continent with no written word would have (before white man and the 90% culling of native populations) had medicine men, their apprentices and a solid line of stories. What worked 100 years ago would be part of their working legend. And (I know this sounds foo-foo but there is far too much medical knowledge that ancients have acquired and by how else?) the medicine man would seek knowledge that might well be "take your tribe to here" or go this plant, take these leaves and do this with them" or "put a sign on your door and stay inside" (well that was the Jews halfway 'cross the world).

In the name of science we have turned our back on both of these sources of wisdom. Then we elect politicians who have no use for the scientists. (And all this after spending the past couple of centuries developing an infrastructure to rapidly deploy this disease to every corner on earth that might contain living homo sapiens.)

Which brings up the interesting question - what is the most intelligent species on earth? We claim it but don't act it.

Ben
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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04/15/2020 02:43 PM
Quite a top notch rant there Ben!
zootracer

Posts:833

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04/15/2020 07:24 PM
Six bucks and my right nut says we won't be having a TDF in August.....
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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04/15/2020 08:10 PM
Likely true unless this pesky virus melts away in summer heat like the common cold and flu. I don't think it will because it's romping around in Australia, and a lot of cold and flu dropping off in the summer in these parts is due to herd immunity - enough folks have been infected with cold and flu that by the time warmer weather arrives that it spreads less easily. We don't have that yet because we are social distancing etc. etc.
6ix

Posts:485

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04/16/2020 08:10 AM
Agree with Zoot. It's not going to happen. Wishful thinking though and hats off to them for being so optimistic.

Just saw Trump's "we'll be the comeback kid" for reopening the country in the coming weeks. That quote will come back to haunt him when the "comeback" is really the resurgence of the virus in May due to reopening far too early. Won't matter. He'll call the reporters liars and deny ever having said it even though it's on video. The guy is pure teflon. And if you've watched the movie "Dark Waters", you'll know teflon is really nasty stuff.
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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04/16/2020 09:14 AM
6ix have you watched The Devil we Know documentary? Same topic. Very disturbing. We are all part Teflon that’s how widespread this junk is.

Ben is a little over cynical. At a scientific level we know what to do. However that knowledge has been hamstrung by both politicians and individualism and self entitlement (don’t discount this last part I know I struggle with this one just a little). When we let the the scientists take the lead you can get a measured coordinated and successful response. I will offer British Columbia as exhibit A, thanks in large part to our no nonsense our chief medical officer Bonnie Henry.
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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04/17/2020 08:49 PM
Here’s the case on that earlier point. Still only the end of the beginning. Events should not get their hope up this year.

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/vaughn-palmer-curve-flattened-hope-restored-but-covid-19-battle-isnt-over-in-b-c
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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04/18/2020 08:47 PM
Indeed. The voices, hard hearted voices, do have a point that shorter and way more painful in the shorter term just might be better overall in the longer term. Of course, when it hits these armchair experts or their loved ones they will find Jesus and demand all resources be devoted to them and their loved ones. Trump has unleashed his dogs in 3 states with Dem Govs. What a total and purely evil jerk. This will be interesting and sad.
mondonico

Posts:158

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04/22/2020 02:20 PM
zoot

"Six bucks and my right nut says we won't be having a TDF in August....."

I agree but if I didn't you could keep your right nut I want your left.
79pmooney

Posts:3178

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04/22/2020 03:38 PM
lsd, the unleashed dogs will flock together, infect each other and reduce their numbers some; all with the blessing, in fact encouragement their leader (who likewise refuses to wear a mask). (Scratches head.)
79pmooney

Posts:3178

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04/22/2020 03:44 PM
Posted By Evan Solida on 04/16/2020 08:10 AM
Agree with Zoot. It's not going to happen. Wishful thinking though and hats off to them for being so optimistic.

Just saw Trump's "we'll be the comeback kid" for reopening the country in the coming weeks. That quote will come back to haunt him when the "comeback" is really the resurgence of the virus in May due to reopening far too early. Won't matter. He'll call the reporters liars and deny ever having said it even though it's on video. The guy is pure teflon. And if you've watched the movie "Dark Waters", you'll know teflon is really nasty stuff.

Let's see it this posts:

Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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04/22/2020 08:07 PM
I’ve seen that meme now in so many places and each time I see it I cringe. For anyone who got a half descent science grade in high school it should not need explaining why.

That is not to say that social distancing won’t be with us for foreseeable future but still.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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05/05/2020 10:06 AM
Offical UCI calendar released....Tour Aug. 29-Sep 20. Giro in October, but overlapping the Classics and the first week of the Vuelta.

Gonna be some tired legs this fall....

https://www.velonews.com/news/uci-publishes-updated-2020-racing-calendar/
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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05/06/2020 08:18 AM
How to win a Grand Tour in 2020: Get Covid19 now, recover, and be immune (maybe). When half the field gets booted over the course of the race for a fever of any cause, you will have your pass.
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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05/06/2020 09:38 AM
“(maybe)”

No, immunity is pretty much disproven already.

longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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05/06/2020 11:02 AM
Not so sure, I follow the literature closely, and this is yet to be determined.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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05/06/2020 01:42 PM
The way I see the calendar, WT teams will need 3 "teams" to successfully compete....a Tour team, A Giro team, and a Classics team. The Vuelta would then likely be raced on some hybrid of the Tour / Classics teams.

Did I mention there were gonna be some tired legs this fall?
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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05/06/2020 09:03 PM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 05/06/2020 11:02 AM
Not so sure, I follow the literature closely, and this is yet to be determined.


Something came out from Los Alamos today that strongly hinted at it. At a minimum they shows changes in dominant strain over time which tends to rule out immunity.
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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05/06/2020 09:23 PM
FYI:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10216999740809616&set=gm.858569107971624&type=3&theater
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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05/06/2020 09:29 PM
Bottom line:
It's complicated
Not all tests measure the same thing. Results depend on what is measured by the test. And NO test is perfect. Welcome to the real world, and the chaotic Covid19 world.
IgM is good evidence of recent infection
Lack of IgG does NOT mean no long term immunity, depends on when the serologic test was done relative to the infection.
Nasal swaps have similar issues with acuity.
Circulating IgG weeks after infection implies long term immunity, but how long is a good question, and is at the heart of my post

longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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05/07/2020 10:17 AM
PS: definitely mutating, that may explain why the NYC strain(s) which came from Europe seemed to be more toxic than the California strains. But that does not preclude immunity covering all strains.
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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05/07/2020 09:44 PM
That new dominant strain they say is more transmissible but not as deadly.

I am not sure that differences between California and New York are related to different strains. NYC being the densely populated place it is and also underlying base health differences are more likely factors.

Good read. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/covid-19-us-canada-death-rates-1.5553168


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