2020 "Spring" Classics thread (spoilers) - VeloNation - Cycling Forums, Bicycle Forums, Community Forums

Posts:4209

09/30/2020 12:19 PM
Kicked off today w/ Fleche Wallone....Hirschi took his excellent Tour form and took the win atop the Huy. Was kinda surprised he was able to hold off some of the more pure, explosive climbers. Nice win for the kid! In other news, Amstel Gold has been cancelled due to heightened COVID restrictions in Holland.

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09/30/2020 12:51 PM
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 09/30/2020 12:19 PM In other news, Amstel Gold has been cancelled due to heightened COVID restrictions in Holland. The Netherlands. Amstel is not actually held in Holland.

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09/30/2020 01:07 PM
And Anna Van der Breggen won her 5th straight! TV coverage finally. She's on fire! Dutch, Euro and Worlds TT champ. Giro Rosa. Worlds Road. https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/anna-van-der-breggen-made-fleche-wallonne-history-and-the-world-watched-on-live-tv/ Her competitors should insist she has to wear all the jerseys as a handicap, but it's cooking down so even might not slow her.

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09/30/2020 01:42 PM
That was 6th win Ben. With it she surpassed that other goddess of the Mur, Vos, until today both had 5 wins. This one was close and hard for her. Lots of good female riders to give her a good run for her money, and unlike the worlds the deck isn't stacked by one team.

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09/30/2020 02:25 PM
The Netherlands. Amstel is not actually held in Holland. Tomato, tomahto.

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09/30/2020 02:52 PM
OC, had to google Holland vs Netherlands. Thanks. But in sports, the line gets pretty fuzzy. You root for the Netherlands soccer team saying "rah, Hollland" because "rah, Netherlands" just doesn't have the ring. We're talking sports here, so I'm not sure CK is so entirely wrong. (It's COVID so CK is sitting here behind a screen and must type out Netherlands, but without COVID he might just have flown to the Netherlands and be roadside rooting on Jumbo-Visma.

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09/30/2020 03:36 PM
Haha, we certainly don't make it easy on you guys and sometimes even confuse ourselves. Aside from the Holland versus Netherlands thing, we are neither Hollanders or Netherlanders, no we are Dutch. No, not Danish, that's a pastry. Anyway, CK could stand along a road in the Holland country side for a long time and while he might see a lot of cyclists, the Amstel Gold race would be happening somewhere on the other side of the country, where the pastries and beer are also better. So its in his own interest to learn the difference. Unless he likes pickled herring, in that case he's in the right spot (warning, pickled herring may cause gout, trust me).

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09/30/2020 03:46 PM
Pickled herring is gross....

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09/30/2020 03:56 PM
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 09/30/2020 03:46 PM Pickled herring is gross.... So you're better off staying a mile away from Holland then. All they have is pickled herring, tullips and Heineken. In Limburg, land of Amstel Gold (and also where I am from) we have good beer, coffee and "vlaai" (look it up).

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09/30/2020 08:16 PM
Heineken is also gross.....but so is Amstel.

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09/30/2020 08:33 PM
This forumite is truly glad to report that for several years now here in the US we now enjoy a zillion excellent local microbrew options. The watery stuff sold by the large breweries has a place, but the craft brews are making inroads, and they top most imports by miles. As for the highly advertised (to us) imports, it's just the swill they export. I've held in my heart that what they serve in country is not the skunk piss they export for sale here, having faith in the palate of Euros as I do. When this pandemic thing is over in a year or two or three, I will be in a football stadium or a nearby Pub in England or the continent, with a local brew, and will revise. With I hope the 46th US president who will not make me pretend to be Canadian to avoid embarrassment or a beat down .

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09/30/2020 09:11 PM
lsd, I have had the priviledge of living in Seattle in the neighborhood Red Hook started in the '80s and '90s, then Portland since. But long before that, my senior year at Michigan, one of my roomies was from Detroit and had a car. We'd pool money and he'd go to Windsor and buy up. 1974 we were drinking ales, stouts, porters, Guinness Stout brewed in Ontario ... Plus the local brew was Stroh's. No, not a great beer, but it was different and real, not a watered down sell-out. (I thought the Guinness brewed in Ontario wasn't the "real deal" until I went to Ireland and learned that beer could not pass county lines and that each county had its own Guinness and they were not the same! Ontario's was well within the scope of what I drank there.) At the same time, I"d go home and drink Carling Black Label with my Dad or if I was lucky, time it when he had Ballintine India Pale Ale. (No, far, far from the high quality craft of today's good IPAs but - an ale with enough oomph to get it to keep and little enough fluff that it probably would survive the warm trip in the ship's hold around Africa to India. (I don't like to think of the "culture" that the craft micros would acquire on that journey.) Sadly, these days I drink almost zero alcohol. Maybe a beer since my family's birthdays in April. So this is just reminiscing. And edit: Heineken. The classmate of my dad I used to sail with always had Heiniken on board. Enngh. And sometimes Carlsblad (sp) Elephant. Now that I liked!

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09/30/2020 09:15 PM
CK - that is because somewhat confusingly Amstel is not actually from where race is held but from Amsterdam (yes Holland!) and is owned by Heineken. Yes the race is sponsored by a sub par beer from outside the region but it’s a longstanding sponsor so I guess we’ll take it. LSD - microbrew date’s back to Middle Ages those monks knew what they were doing. There’s an embarrassment of riches in choice where I grew up. Don’t know about further east in Europe though where they seem to like Pilsner or further south where they seem to know more about wine. And FYI right now BC is not only a gravel Mecca but probably also best microbrew scene in North America. Got friends and ride partners in business and did a major restock at their place last weekend.

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09/30/2020 09:34 PM
I would like to counter your local microbrew center of the universe claim with modest Richmond. VA, USA. We can hold our own with dozens of local outlets. This is despite the US's dysfunctional pandemic response. Good news is our VA Governor has mostly got it right. As for me, I'm presently sipping a local microbrew at home , but very much looking forward to more social options when appropriate. When I don't know. Ideally late next summer, but the never vaxxers and other skeptics fans may screw this up. A very wise person recently observed that Covid will be with us for three years. At this point I agree.

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09/30/2020 10:10 PM
You are mighty optimistic with one year. I will say four years and at least half a dozen waves. Once that is done perhaps there will be an opportunity to sample the VA beer scene. In meantime we will have to look for alternative ways to hold the clubs unauthorized brew fondo (ie how many breweries can we hit in a metric century). This year we canned it.

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09/30/2020 11:48 PM
You canned it? Took all those brews home in cans and shared them on Zoom?

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10/01/2020 07:11 PM
What’s Zoom LOL.

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10/03/2020 09:26 AM
Legendary effort by MVDP today. He’s back and ready. Now hopefully the races will happen.

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10/03/2020 10:10 AM
MVP announced he will go to LBL as well.... Heard on a podcast that there are serious questions Roubaix will happen due to increased COVD19 activity in northern France.

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10/03/2020 10:45 AM
Yes Roubaix is in danger. I trust MVDP will have soft legs tomorrow but he should be good for Wevelghem.

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10/03/2020 01:37 PM
WVA and MVDP... those two cx guys are freaking aliens!

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10/04/2020 07:41 AM
GvA out of Liege after hitting a traffic pole that was not well marked. Also reports that Adam Yates has abandoned.

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10/04/2020 10:04 AM
Never celebrate before the line!!!

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10/04/2020 10:24 AM
"Julian, at least I wasn't in the arc-en-ciel when I blew it." Erik

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10/04/2020 04:51 PM
Nipped at the line because of an early celebration and then relegated for his sprint.....not the way you want to debut your new jersey.

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10/11/2020 03:35 PM
Some good racing in past week. Brabantse Pijl was excellent and JA got his revenge even though he repeated his mistake from Liege, just barely got away with it. Wevelgem was excellent today with Pedersen once again showing he’s one of the most underrated riders in peloton despite already having been world champ. WVA and MVDP marking each other out of contention. Paris Tours also was good. That race has gotten a lot better since they introduced the gravel roads though vineyards. De Ronde still to go. Too bad about Roubaix.

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10/11/2020 07:03 PM
Yeah, great race today....I’m not surprised MVP and WVA got outmaneuvered for the win, but for them to come in 8 & 9 out of a nine man break was surprising.

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10/11/2020 09:52 PM
MVP said after he had nothing left after chasing WVA down. (Perhaps WVA also burned more matches than he let on.)

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10/14/2020 04:59 PM
Crap move by Ackermann today in Schelderprijs......must be a team thing based on Sagan's move at roughly the same time in the Giro. But dayum is Ewan fast!!!

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10/14/2020 08:06 PM
I was just happy Cavendish got in the break and spent some time out front. He clearly enjoyed the moment. Never saw the sprint. Someone photographed him taking race number off his bike, presumably in case this was his last race.

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10/14/2020 08:57 PM
If this is it for Cav, I’m wondering what will his final legacy be in the pantheon of successful track riders and road field sprinters. Up there for sure. In that rarefied atmosphere, how does his career compare with Mr. 10k volts (look it up youngsters)? Zabel? Maertens? Various Flemish dopers from a few years back? I’ll put him up there, a notch below De Vlaeminck, as a preliminary. This sort of eval benefits from some time and perspective. Kudos to Cav for growing as a person during his time in the limelight.

Posts:1767

10/15/2020 08:57 AM
Got to see Can at the Tour of Missouri and have (around here somewhere) a water bottle he signed. If this it it for him his retirement is well deserved, what a career. RE: Ewan... can you imagine trying to draft him? He's so low that unless you are 4' 10" there'd be no benefit. The guy is an absolute rocket!

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10/15/2020 09:22 AM
Edit to my Cav post. Meant Cipollini not classics guy De Vlaemink.

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10/15/2020 09:29 AM
I read a single line somewhere that Cav may still line up for de Ronde and de Panne. Rankings are difficult but certainly he’s had some legendary sprint battles and a long list of wins.

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10/15/2020 10:46 AM
He was as dominant as any sprinter that I have ever seen from ~2007-2012 (take or give on either side). Moreover, he helped change the art of sprinting after the Age of Cipo where trains became the dominant form of sprinting. Sure, he had a formidable train at HTC / Columbia, but could also freelance and surf the wheels to win. he also made aerodynamics a more critical element of sprinting.

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10/15/2020 11:19 AM
Posted By Dale Dale on 10/15/2020 08:57 AM Got to see Can at the Tour of Missouri and have (around here somewhere) a water bottle he signed. If this it it for him his retirement is well deserved, what a career. RE: Ewan... can you imagine trying to draft him? He's so low that unless you are 4' 10" there'd be no benefit. The guy is an absolute rocket! I saw that aerial highlight of him. No way anyone was coming off that wheel! He was gone.

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10/15/2020 11:53 AM
So Ewan then is the proper heir of Cavendish. Pocket rocket aerodynamic sprinting.

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10/15/2020 02:28 PM
Posted By Orange Crush on 10/15/2020 11:53 AM So Ewan then is the proper heir of Cavendish. Pocket rocket aerodynamic sprinting. Cut of the same cloth as far as style goes... low and fast, can win with or without a leadout train. A win is a win whether it comes from a leadout or surfing wheels.

Posts:2881

10/18/2020 08:02 AM
F@ing race radios.

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10/18/2020 08:51 AM
First time ever for a race to have father-son wins? Awesome-yes!

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10/18/2020 07:24 PM
Good day for Dutch cycling. Still disappointed about JA's crash. That would have been an even better finale. I hope his injuries are temporary. That was a really hard fall. Stupid race radios. I've contemplating becoming a USAC motoref. Inexcusably stupid driving took out Viviani, mainly bad luck took out JA. Either way, I would never want to be "that guy" who inadvertently affected a race, let alone took down a rider.

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10/18/2020 07:34 PM
He’s just got some broken bones in his hand and will be fine. Too bad he crashed but no impact on his season as this was his last race anyway. JA was already pulling some silly stunts in climb before crash trying to ride ledge but failing and almost crashing. He’s a very nervous rider I would not want to sit on his wheel. The crash was a series of factors coming together with motards slowing in inside instead of outside turn, WVA cutting it really close around them trying to catch a draft catching VDP almost off guard and then JA was further distracted with his radio.

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10/18/2020 07:50 PM
Cyclingnews reports only some hand bone fractures, which should not affect his future as a professional cyclist. That's a bit of good news. His right hand is injured. If this is his dominant hand, he may experience some lifelong mild disability at fine motor skills. Regardless, sucks because this should not have happened. I'll wager he was in a justifiably foul mood at the local hospital. Hope he was kind to the staff, it wasn't their fault. If he was a good sport, I hope this gets out, would be a well deserved consolation for what was taken away today.

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10/18/2020 08:21 PM
I'd love to see Alaphillippe become the vocal advocate of banning race radios. For the next eleven months, he is the most visible rider in the sport.

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10/18/2020 08:44 PM
It really wasn’t the race radio’s fault, it was JA’s....he wasn’t paying attention. He could have just as easily been looking down at his computer or reaching into his jersey for a gel and the same result would have occurred. Great race...bummed we were robbed of a bit of seeing the 3 strongest riders fighting it out to the line, but it was still awesome.

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10/18/2020 08:53 PM
Fully agreed CK. Nothing to do with radios Bottom line is riders don’t want to get rid of radios because the alternative creates more dangers. This topic was closed some time ago among them. Time to drop it.

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10/18/2020 09:09 PM
Fully disagree. JA was following wheels, which were unexpectently deviated by a fully unexpected motorcycle slow down in the riders' paths. If he wasn't on his stupid radio he would have stayed upright.

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10/18/2020 09:52 PM
But it was his actions, not the radio’s ....he didn’t need to be on the radio at that time. He chose to use it....just as if he had chosen to reach in his jersey pocket to get a gel. The radio didn’t cause the accident.

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10/19/2020 07:43 AM
He had to look to his left - wrong way to see the moto on the right - to use the radio. Reaching for a gel or glancing down would have put the moto in his peripheral vision.

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10/19/2020 08:34 AM
What if he was reaching into his left pocket and not his right? What if he had strung the radio wire up his right side instead of his left? What if he was flipping through the screens on his computer to see some data? I'd also argue that he was overlapping MVP's wheel ...once again because he was not paying attention to what he was doing. See this screen shot of how far MVP veered off line....that is going to have an amplifying effect. WVA had a slight move, MVP made a more dramatic one and then JA caught the brunt of it because of the amplification and the fact that he had his head down. At the end of the day, he was not in control of his bike at the wrong moment. That was his doing, not the radio's. It is really just bad luck and a racing "incident" more than anything else. IMO.

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10/19/2020 09:39 AM
From the Cyclingnews website: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/motorbike-rider-involved-in-alaphilippe-crash-i-feel-terrible/ It appeared from the TV images that Alaphilippe had his left arm up to talk into his team radio just before hitting the motorbike, meaning that perhaps he would have also leaned his head over to the left to speak into the microphone and so not have seen first Wout van Aert (Jumbo-Visma) and then Mathieu van der Poel (Alpecin-Fenix) flick left to avoid Lissens' slowing 'moto'. It's a theory that appears to hold water. "Afterwards, I remember seeing that Alaphilippe had been talking into his microphone and could no longer avoid me," Lissens said. "I feel sorry for Alaphilippe. His injuries are bad, but he also had the chance to win the Tour of Flanders, and that's really hit me hard."

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10/19/2020 09:40 AM
User error. People crash their bikes and cars all the time. It is typically not the equipment fault. Van Aert and MVDP have radios. They used them more wisely. Etc.

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10/19/2020 10:04 AM
Just reporting the POV of the motoref, who evidently has been lambasted from some quarters, slowing on the inside of a curve. Like I said, I would never want to be "that guy".

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10/19/2020 10:06 AM
Moto driver was 100% not at fault.....

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10/19/2020 10:09 AM
CK - the race jury is looking into motards actions as a possible contributing factor. The 100% not at fault is premature. It may turn out to be no fault but let’s see.

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10/19/2020 11:26 AM
Here's how I see it....the moto involved was following the Shimano neutral service moto. they were both inline with each other, but slowing The caveat is that they were on the inside of the right hand bend. IMO, what happened was that WVA went to the right to do 2 things - 1) cut the corner and 20 get a quick draft off the motos. He misjudged the speed at which they were slowing, causing him to pop back out more aggressively than normal. MVP and JA were still sliding to the right and likely had their view of the motos obscured...due to WVA last second reaction back to the left, and their continued movement to the right, caused an amplification effect of overreaction. All of this compounded with JA going for his radio at the precise wrong moment. Again, IMO, this was just a race incident and not really anyone's "fault". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjQiLyB9zPc

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10/19/2020 11:40 AM
I'd agree with this being a compounding of a number of errors in judgement from various parties without it being necessarily anyone's or anything's fault. For the motards there are better places to slow down but at least there's the counter argument that if they stay ahead of the racers and one of them has a mechanical they get yelled at too. For JA, the moment to use the radio is a few minutes later. That stretch of road where WVA goes into a feeding frenzy. He grabs and downs 2-3 gels in short order. In a way Walter Plankaerts words from Friday came true. He said that while JA may have done a recon of the course doing it at race speed would hit him like a cold shower. There are very few moments where you can let your guard down (the straight double wide concrete roads being those moments). Notice how many riders missed turns and went into grass even before JA crashed? That's how challenging it is to race that course. I soft pedalled it myself in 2016 (ok more like a mad chase because we missed the start of the cyclo by 1.5 hours). Anyway, JA has sent a message to motard with a thumbs up so all seems to be OK.

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10/19/2020 12:40 PM
Thumbs not being broken.

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10/21/2020 10:43 AM
Presumably a slight concussion for VDP today. He’s got a hard head so could have been worse. It was last ride of season anyway although he is signed up for a handful of cyclocross races. Tricky wind conditions.

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10/21/2020 11:20 AM
The more I refelct on the Flanders JA crash, if I were to assign blame to anyone, it would be to Wout. He went to the right to get a brief draft off the motos, misjudged their speed and then cut it way too close. Never signaled the motos were coming up and hey would have been blocked form both MVP and JA's view. But mostly I'm still just chalking it up to a racing incident and a bad confluence of events.

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