Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/04/2021 04:33 PM |
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While I think it is dangerous AF for everyday riders to be using that position, I really don't care if pros do it. I can't even think of a single accident that resulted from the supertuck. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 02/04/2021 06:11 PM |
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A win for the testicle preservation lobby.
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6ix
Posts:485
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| 02/04/2021 06:51 PM |
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I thought you were talking about the Obree Superman position at first glance. Was like, um, that's a little late, isn't it?
The Supertuck is insanely dangerous. Banning it doesn't just save testicles but the whole body!! I shudder to think of a pack of Cat. 4/5's going down a hill and a few of the 'elite' riders at the front going full Supertuck. That won't end well. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/04/2021 07:51 PM |
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Posted By Cosmic Kid on 02/04/2021 04:33 PM
While I think it is dangerous AF for everyday riders to be using that position, I really don't care if pros do it. I can't even think of a single accident that resulted from the supertuck.
I’ve never hit my head in a bike crash either but apparently that is not a valid reason not to wear a helmet. :-) |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/04/2021 08:05 PM |
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| What’s perhaps more interesting though is the UCI International Road Calendar. The changes will target race organisers, convoy drivers and helicopter pilots, as well as the riders themselves. But then cyclingnews headlines it as clamping down on super tuck. It’s become a bit of a sensationalized rag. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 02/04/2021 08:22 PM |
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This is like requiring helmets. A decree that has ramifications far down the cycling community that will save lives and serious injuries, in domestic racing and in sport riding as a whole. Granted only in areas with serious hills; there is a swath of many square miles across the center of this country and similar elsewhere where the decree will accomplish nothing.. Still this will prevent an occasional serious ER visit in places like Boulder.
Kids won't get the idea watching races. Those that do it will learn they cannot in races. Won't stop the practice, just like required helmets for racing hasn't stopped bare headed riders but there, things have changed a lot. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/05/2021 10:08 AM |
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I’ve never hit my head in a bike crash either but apparently that is not a valid reason not to wear a helmet. :-)
This is like requiring helmets.
I've never been a subscriber to the "but what about the children" line of reasoning....people will always do dumb things on their bikes to try and emulate pros. Should we put speed limits on pro descents to prevent riders from trying to hit 40, 50 or even 60mph on a descent?
And what is a greater danger to the peloton....the supertuck or a guy riding at the front with just his elbows on the HB so he can get aero? I'd rather see them ban that position first....but again, people will do it anyway.
The genie is out of the bottle for both positions.... |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 02/05/2021 10:30 AM |
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The upside to this is it *might* discourage the Cat-5 pro-wannabe from doing that.
We've got a couple of 20-somethings around here that think they have Sagan-like bike skills and Paolo Savoldelli descending abilities. I give them a wide berth when they show up on a ride.
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/05/2021 10:46 AM |
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| What is more likely to impact their decision making....the UCI banning a position which they have seen pros do for years and are already emulating, or a stern warning from the vets in the group telling them to knock it off? |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 02/05/2021 11:20 AM |
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Posted By Cosmic Kid on 02/05/2021 10:46 AM
What is more likely to impact their decision making....the UCI banning a position which they have seen pros do for years and are already emulating, or a stern warning from the vets in the group telling them to knock it off?
Ask me about my success rate of getting those goofballs to not do stupid stuff |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/05/2021 11:45 AM |
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hey, I didn't say it would work...just that it was "more likely" to.  |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 02/05/2021 02:59 PM |
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| CK. this isn't about changing those who already have seen it and do it. It's about not setting this example for the next generation. If this sticks, they will grow up in a world where the tuck has always been banned at the pro level and probably by the national federations down to amateur levels.. |
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zootracer
Posts:833
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| 02/05/2021 07:24 PM |
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| They also banned chucking water bottles onto roadways. Rule does not come effective until 2022. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/05/2021 07:52 PM |
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| I don’t think there’s any wider safety gains from banning the tuck. But it’s a good call anyway. It just takes one unevenness in road, one small pebble and one of those fools goes flying and possibly dying. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 02/07/2021 05:56 PM |
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You see what Froome said? Funny stuff...
“Next they’ll be banning stem watching and elbows sticking out... 🤡🙈😂“ |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 02/07/2021 09:42 PM |
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Posted By Dale Dale on 02/07/2021 05:56 PM
You see what Froome said? Funny stuff...
“Next they’ll be banning stem watching and elbows sticking out... 🤡🙈😂“
I was taught to be looking up the road, but riding with elbows out was good. Locking handlebars with neighbors was bad.
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/08/2021 04:29 PM |
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UCI has now also banned the "puppy paws" / pseudo-TT position.....
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/08/2021 08:53 PM |
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| Saw that. This one really only makes sense if you have clowns in aero position while in middle of pack. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 02/09/2021 08:29 AM |
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I was impressed with the statement the UCI made about tight roads leading up to downhill finishes, unsecured barriers, road furniture, and unsafe support vehicles/ photo cars/ motos on the course.
...uh, hang on a sec... Guess I can't find that statement right now. Check back in 2026
/s |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/09/2021 08:28 PM |
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| Anyway the inventor of super tuck, Matej Mohoric, says ban is no biggie. It really only gave him an advantage for a brief period when he won junior worlds in 2013 and a few years after. By 2016 Froome and a bunch of others were using it meaning advantage gone. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 02/09/2021 08:36 PM |
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| Great post Dale.
FWIW we were playing with the supertuck as Cat 2 amateurs in the hills of northern New England in the 70s. My bike handling skills were never more than average, and the frost heaves could launch the unsuspecting into a low earth orbit. Ben will understand this on the descent from Smugler's Notch in the Stowe road race. Still, it wasn't hard in a non competition setting. A lot of us were skilled skiers and understood how to go fast powered by gravity. Still not crazy about trauma to the family jewels. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/11/2021 09:24 AM |
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Good interview with Trentin on rule changes. Apparently there’s been some fools who started using tuck in middle of peloton so they proactively banned it. There’s also a lot more going on than what the cycling media and riders choose to focus on.
“Maybe riders should spend less time on TikTok and be more proactive when it comes to making their workplace a safer place.” |
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Nick A
Posts:625
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| 02/13/2021 06:01 AM |
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At first, I thought the bans were stupid, but CK got me thinking...
Also, those barriers at finishes with the feet sticking out has always seems dangerous AF. However, if they hammered offenders with serious penalties for being dangerous at sprints, my guess is that would do more than anything.
N |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 02/13/2021 04:19 PM |
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Nick, I've always thought the same about fighting in hockey. Up the penalties, both ice time and $$-wise. Make it hit the paycheck of everybody on the team, directly or indirectly. NFL - fighting costs expensive penalties, probably fines and is so costly that there is amazingly little fighting in the most brutal sport on earth where (unlike hockey) the same players go to full combat play after play.
Hockey is one of the great sports. I grew up watching one of the greatest ever play. (And watched him transform one of the major fight teams, the 1960s Boston Bruins to winners with his skating and playing.) I admired the great skating Montreal Canadians with ambivalence because the rivalry with the Bruins was far older that I was. A game I really enjoyed watching (long after my hero had left the game) was those two teams playing after a benches clearing brawl the previous meeting. The refs were going to call everything. Everybody in the Garden knew it. Game played out as we all knew it had to. The Canadians doing there best to out-skate the Bruins for 60 minutes, the Bruins doing all in their power to hit hard and often to slow them down. No fights. Plenty of penalties on the Bruins as they did what they and to do. It worked. Bruins won 3-2. They shook hands after. Hockey as it should be. (I'd rather be a Canadians fan and have them win but we don't get to pick our upbringing!)
Here, make the penalties hurt. TT tuck. Puppy paws. Closing out sprinters into barriers. Enforce them. These guys are racing for money. Make it clear (by example) that breaking these rules means you and your teammates make less. Amazing incentive!
Edit: Puppy paws are so cute. Being against them is just wrong! Thanks CK for permanently clouding my judgement!  |
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jookey
Posts:197
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| 02/14/2021 04:38 PM |
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| Dang, they just added this on Zwift. |
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Nick A
Posts:625
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| 02/18/2021 10:13 AM |
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@79
I'd like to like hockey more, especially considering where I now live. But the almost, "pro wrestling" aspect to the fighting makes it even stupider. Of course, I'm talking about the North American version. I have some in-laws that are really into hockey, so I've actually been to a couple of NHL games. On one hand, it was fascinating to see the play, that was away from the puck. But it was also ridiculous seeing the unpunished poking and taunting too, that always lead to fights.
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Nick A
Posts:625
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| 02/18/2021 10:19 AM |
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When I raced as a junior in the early/mid eighties, the aero descent position, was nose down by the front tire, hands on the tops of the bars, with chest pressing on hands, butt up a little, and knees together. It was very stable until you hit something, because you were so front heavy, it made steering super squirrely. I never hit anything, and never saw anyone crash because of it. Then again, when you're 16/17 and invincible, you do stupid things. FWI, the fastest that I ever went was 55mph, on a complete straight downhill.
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/18/2021 10:59 AM |
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| Back in the day I had an old school speedometer on my bike. At some point during an event in Belgium on a steep longer downhill in the Ardennes, it showed 99.9 kph, and then 00.0. This is when I stopped looking at it. Presumably the fastest I've ever gone downhill. No massive aero tucks or anything. That's never been my thing. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/18/2021 11:29 AM |
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The two fastest speeds I have ever hit have ironically been in two of the flattest states....
First was near Ocala, Fl for a training camp while in college...there was actually one fairly steep, decently long hill there. We basically did hill repeats, turned around, got up a head of steam and bombed the descent, which was dead straight. Hit 56 mpg.
The second fastest I hit was 52 mph here in IL....was out on a lunch ride and a buddy and I hopped behind a truck that we caught up to at a stop light. Perfect timing and he accelerated just fast enough that we could go with him. We were FLYING.....and actually had to coast a few times. I still shudder to think about what would have happened if there had been a roadkill sitting there.... |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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huckleberry
Posts:824
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| 02/18/2021 01:09 PM |
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| 56 mpg is darn good for a human - are you a diesel per chance? ; ) |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 02/18/2021 01:38 PM |
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I laughed out loud at the diesel remark once I realized what happened.
Todays math class problem is: 20oz bottle/ hour @18mph = X MPG. Solve for X
I moved the bike computer to the front of the tandem to prevent my wife from seeing the speed. 40+ and she's not happy so it's a don't ask/ don't tell with regard to the top end speed. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 02/18/2021 02:45 PM |
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Posted By christopher behrens on 02/18/2021 01:09 PM
56 mpg is darn good for a human - are you a diesel per chance? ; )
If I pick the right truck to draft, my Prius C can get 56 mpg at 56 mph. Actually better. I drove 900 miles to Calif my first summer with the car and got 59 mpg but that was with a lot of drafting and patience. A few minutes in the 70 mph left lane and my mpg went to h***.
Edit: in my college days, I calculated bicycle mpg based on the energy in food eaten. Got ~1000 mpg. This was at the height of the Saudi oil crisis. That really impressed me. I stayed car-free the next 12 years.
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/18/2021 03:34 PM |
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Hahaha, I noticed the mpg and was going to make a comment but didn't quite find the inspiration. Good stuff Huck.
Drafting behind trucks is always awesome given lack of properly steep grades to create momentum. |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 02/18/2021 08:59 PM |
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| Just reading that they did some wind tunnel experiments on puppy paws and inferred an 11% speed gain from the more aero position. So this rule change will definitely lower chances of successful breakaways. |
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Nick A
Posts:625
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| 02/21/2021 06:56 AM |
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On that puppy paw thing (great description, hadn't heard that before). I've done it a few times, and it's a noticeable difference. It makes me think how nobody ever thought of it decades ago, since it takes no special equipment.
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/21/2021 07:45 AM |
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Nick, it has been done for a long time....but just recently took off in popularity.
I remember back in the 1990 Tour de Trump (god I hate writing that name in relation to bike racing), Steve Bauer crashed in the TT and used that position once he got going again on his road bike. Used the STI cables to hang on to.
Got to ~51:00 in the video below...
https://youtu.be/-4ufHfCZGN4
I think a big change for the wide adoption has been the advent of aero road bars. The flat tops makes holding that position more comfortable. With round bars, it is kinda painful. |
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