Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 08/11/2021 04:56 PM |
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Anabolic steroids detected.
Usual BS response of “I never knowingly or intentionally took anything”.
https://www.velonews.com/news/cyclocross/kate-compton-on-usada-ban-i-have-always-been-a-clean-athlete/ |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 08/11/2021 05:21 PM |
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| What? No dog to blame it on? |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/11/2021 05:47 PM |
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Sounds like the positive came from re-analysis of an earlier sample using carbon radio isotope testing.
As an environmental scientist, I love forensic analysis using isotopes. Fascinating stuff that can tell you a lot of things not evident in "regular" data. But costly, so in this case it took a biopassport irregularity to trigger the testing. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/11/2021 08:20 PM |
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| Regarding KFC, Kentucky Fried Chicken is tasty, but it's bad for the waistline. And full of saturated fat which wreaks havoc on our lipid metabolism and makes us even fatter, more insulin resistant, and generally less well, so there is that, too. Maybe better to ban them. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 08/13/2021 12:20 PM |
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I've been a huge fan of KC since I watched her win her first two Nats in Portland. Always believed she raced clean. Now, at 42, well older athletes have been known to turn to drugs to extend their careers forever. Female riders supported by spouses over their careers drugging? The French rider who rode until almost 50. Forget her name. We also live in a time where the long list of banned substances are in all kinds of foods and over the counter medications, often not well documented. The possibility of unknowing injesting something within the detection window over near two decades at the top of the field and being tested many, many times just doesn't sound completely remote to me. And as she stated n her CyclingNews interview, it was 5 months before she learned she had been positive and she had no way of retracing all she consumed.
Maybe she's lying. Maybe she's tellIng the truth. Either way, its a sad way to end a storied career.
Oh, I'll write "KC" and keep that "Food" out of her name!
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 08/13/2021 12:45 PM |
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The possibility of unknowing injesting something within the detection window over near two decades at the top of the field and being tested many, many times just doesn't sound completely remote to me
Just weird how all these tests only find athletes who accidently ingested something and never any actual dopers.....
And if you go back and look at KFC's statements re: Betsema and her failed test, well....too bad Katie.
Suffice to say, I don't believe her. |
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6ix
Posts:485
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| 08/13/2021 01:48 PM |
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This one makes me feel like when good ol' Tyler got popped in 2004 shortly following his Olympic gold in the TT. He just seemed like a good, trustworthy guy. I liked him, just like KC.
I want to believe. But we all know how that ended up. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 08/13/2021 02:54 PM |
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| ^ As you stated, similar feeling as with Hamilton. I hoped it wasn't true but it's Groundhogs Day in the cycling world yet again so, sorry KFC, I don't believe you. Wish I could but... |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 08/13/2021 10:24 PM |
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Psst, Katie……
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/14/2021 10:33 AM |
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Posted By Cosmic Kid on 08/13/2021 12:45 PM
The possibility of unknowing injesting something within the detection window over near two decades at the top of the field and being tested many, many times just doesn't sound completely remote to me
Suffice to say that the first “standard “ test detected nothing. Goes to show how useless standard testing regimes are. It was only through a bio passport anomaly that the second more sophisticated test got triggered. Basically she was caught through a fluke. Also explains the 5 months delay. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/14/2021 06:10 PM |
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Appreciate OC's deeper dive.
Apologies if this is confrontational, but CK, if you dismiss this rider thanks to nth level investigation, are you still OK with 100 others who have not been subjected to this level?
Or maybe I am the naive one.
Little Jamaica, who has had closed internal training for many years owns the women's fast twitch olympics.
ROC dances and dodges and wins a ton of medals
The US top athletes are not at all beyond further scrutiny, don't get me wrong.
Just sayin it's rather too easy to bash the latest snagged rider/other sport athlete while ignoring the big picture.
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/14/2021 06:12 PM |
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PS if Bruce's silver metal daughter gets busted, that's it for me. But how could she?
Optimist here still believes. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 08/15/2021 06:01 PM |
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Apologies if this is confrontational, but CK, if you dismiss this rider thanks to nth level investigation, are you still OK with 100 others who have not been subjected to this level?
But there wasn’t a “nth level investigation”. Something in her bio-passport came up abnormal, and based on that, they went back and re-tested her sample with a more expensive test.
That is the way the system is supposed to work…something she submitted turned up a red flag and they investigated further. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/15/2021 09:11 PM |
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| Ah, so IIUC all riders’ older specimens received this “nth level” evaluation. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/15/2021 09:13 PM |
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| That would be all riders |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 08/16/2021 07:17 AM |
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No, the initial tests are comprised of a “base level” analysis….and that seems to be sufficient for most tests / riders. IF, however, there is additional evidence (as in a bio passport irregularity), then they can go and do a second, more precise analysis.
It is evidence driven. Not sure why that is seen as a problem.
They don’t run the second tests all the time because it is too expensive and unnecessary. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 08/16/2021 07:28 AM |
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Fairly even-handed analysis if KGC’s response to the situation….
https://www.cyclocosm.com/2021/08/the-comptons-god-awful-response-to-katies-positive-is-everything-you-need-to-know-about-this-case/ |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/16/2021 12:41 PM |
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CK is correct that the anti-doping playing field is same for everyone. The fact that most have not been subjected to more detailed investigation is reflection of how the antidoping system works.
Basically, all athletes are subjected to routine testing. This testing is for a number of possible doping substances. If measured concentrations of substances remain below established thresholds then you're good and receive a nice form letter as Compton did initially. If any concentration is above threshold then that is deemed a potential positive (doping violation) and athlete can request a B-sample analysis. This testing is straightforward but it leaves a lot of room for micro-dosing and things like that. Basically it removes the opportunity for a doping free for all but does no more than that.
The biopassport just uses the data from routine testing but looks a things more holistically. I.e. it looks at outliers or trends in the data. This is a lot more complicated but could theoretically detect potential for microdosing (for example, a slowly increasing trend in concentrations of a certain substance or a sudden spike outside normal variability). This then triggers follow-up and that is what tripped Compton. This biopassport is also done for all athletes, I guess they are just smarter dopers than Compton or she just got unlucky.
Ironically a biopassport becomes a lot more valuable for athletes that have been around for some time as there's a lot more data to work with. I am wondering how baselines (normal ranges) are established. Say you start establishing a baseline range for a new athlete but he/she is doping as baseline is being established, then that baseline would be skewed. This is tricky stuff. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/16/2021 10:12 PM |
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Thanks for this explanation, it is helpful.
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/17/2021 09:23 AM |
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This just in
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/why-katie-comptons-doping-case-is-so-shocking/ |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/19/2021 08:24 PM |
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So I'm reading the deeper dives, including on CN and other sites, and they make a very plausible case the KFC got the shaft, she bought a steak that was enhanced, and the system is so dialed in that it concluded that she was enhanced, too.
So here's what I want to know: are PED doses that come from a meal or three from tainted beef enough to actually increase performance? I'm not an expert but I'll wager 10 grand that the answer is no not at all no brainer.
If basically not, then this puritanical scarlet letter system needs a major reassessment.
\
If "scarlet letter" is not familiar to you, here's a reminder of 'Merica's puritancial roots: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_Letter |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 08/19/2021 09:48 PM |
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Posted By 79 pmooney on 08/13/2021 12:20 PM
... We also live in a time where the long list of banned substances are in all kinds of foods and over the counter medications, often not well documented. The possibility of unknowing injesting something within the detection window over near two decades at the top of the field and being tested many, many times just doesn't sound completely remote to me. ... https://www.swisscycles.com/why-katie-comptons-doping-case-is-so-shocking/
"Compton told Cyclingnews she suspected some beef she’d had
for dinner the night before the doping control was to blame. The meat
was not organic and, in the US, the FDA allows ranchers to implant their
cattle with a wide range of hormones, including testosterone, to
promote growth provided the levels of the hormones are “below a safe
level” when the cows are slaughtered.
...
Hajo Seppelt and the German broadcaster ARD – who helped
uncover the Russian state-sponsored doping scheme in 2014 – released a
documentary that is possibly relevant to Compton’s case in July. In
‘Doping Top Secret – Guilty’, researchers at the Institute of Forensic
Medicine at the University Hospital of Cologne tracked a dozen people
who were “administered small amounts of various anabolic substances …
via the skin using a carrier substance – by briefly touching the hand,
neck or arm”. Despite the “extremely small doses”, the steroids could be
detected 15 days later.
..."
Not saying she's clean. But I think there is a real possibilty she got bagged for an "offense" that was completely without intention (and like lsd, I wonder if the amount was enough to accomplish anything).
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/19/2021 09:48 PM |
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| It’s possible it was an accidental ingestion. US farmers are certainly allowed to put a lot of junk in their cattle. Only Alberta or BC beef for me. And that’s what it should come down to for Compton as well. As a professional athlete there’s an inherent obligation on these matters. Just like any profession has its rules of conduct. It’s not like we have a lot of athletes tripping the biopassport. So should the system be overhauled? Probably not. Did Compton get a raw deal? Possibly but it’s still user error. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 08/19/2021 10:07 PM |
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"Compton told Cyclingnews she suspected some beef she’d had for dinner the night before the doping control was to blame
Ingested beef is not gonna trigger something abnormal in her bio passport…..which she keeps conveniently ignoring.
Again, it is amazing how these tests only catch people who ate some “bad beef” and unknowingly put steroids into their system, but never catch any actual dopers.
So weird…./sarcasm |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 08/19/2021 10:14 PM |
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As a professional athlete there’s an inherent obligation on these matters
And again, see her comments when Betsema got busted and “proved” she had accidentally ingested something contaminated. KFC wasn’t having any of it and got high and mighty, “you are responsible for what you put in your body!!”…..but she is singing a whole different tune now. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/20/2021 04:05 AM |
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| Was Betsema busted for similarly trace amount? |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 08/20/2021 09:17 AM |
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CK, if this was accidental from something like bad beef, what would you expect her to do or say differently? Yes, she blasted Betsema and now the shoe's on the other foot. She is looking just as human as the rest of us.
As OC says, as a pro athlete, she needs to stay on full time care to watch what she ingests. But, she's been on this routine nearly 20 years. Retirement was looming anyway. She let her guard down a little. No excuse for world class pro athlete on a pro athlete's giant salary. (Yeah right. As a CX woman. I bet she and her partner could have had a considerably higher household income working rather ordinary jobs.) |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/20/2021 09:22 AM |
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LSD - Betsema tested positive so a direct adverse analytical finding, not a trace amount. But they were able to show that it originated from an authorized (approved) supplement that turned out to be contaminated anyway. Same rule as for Compton as to strict liability of what you ingest irrespective of whether it’s approved.
https://www.cxmagazine.com/denise-betsema-claim-contaminated-supplement-positive-steroid-test |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 08/20/2021 09:34 AM |
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| Compton and Nash as well as others insisted on strict liability back then and now the shoe is on the other foot: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/betsemas-back-dated-six-month-doping-ban-is-bull$4it-says-compton/ |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 08/20/2021 11:46 AM |
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CK, if this was accidental from something like bad beef, what would you expect her to do or say differently?
Not necessarily....but it makes her "higher than thou" stance look really, really bad. But more importantly, if it was an accidental ingestion of "bad beef", you would not have had the adverse finding in her bio-passport....a fact KFC conveniently keeps skipping past.
She let her guard down a little.
No she didn't....she doped. |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 08/20/2021 08:28 PM |
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Tough crowd here!
I'm in another scrutinized biz, medicine, as it should be but jeez if I drank a glass of wine last week while fully off duty I'd be fired by the cycling rulebook! |
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