World Cup CX Thread
Last Post 01/28/2022 09:44 AM by Orange Crush. 58 Replies.
Author Messages
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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10/21/2021 11:04 AM
Lots of good racing so far...even if some of the big names have been absent on the men's side.

Wome's racing has probably been more entertaining as the groups last longer....and Vos is still the GOAT. takes 2/3 of the US races. She was also the only rider I saw who still steps through when she dismounts....everyone else (men and women) swing their inside leg behind their outside leg.

The Fayetteville race was an absolute mudfest...will be interesting to see how that course fares for Worlds in January if it is not muddy. Seems like it will be a very fast course.

Dale, did you got to Fayetteville or Jingle Cross?
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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10/21/2021 11:20 AM
Both Vos and Brand were commenting how Fayetteville changed from superfast in training laps to a muddy slog fest during race. No comparison. Vos clearly benefiting coming off hot road race form but will be taking some time off now.

There have been significant grumblings among Belgian racers about the costs and logistics associated with the American races (for most this is a net negative cost picture unless they are riding for a larger team footing the bill of travel) and the apparent lack of growth of public interest. In part this reflects that crossers have traditionally not been used to lots of travel unlike their road counterparts but on financial side some good points are being made. On flipside there is also lots of commenting about how everyone is enjoying the American scene.

On mens side mostly just waiting for van Aert, VDP and Pidcock to step in to see how things really stack up. BTW - I think it was Vanthorenhout who showed that wiring from the Fayetteville mats had become entangled in his drive train. Didn't affect his race but could have. Something to look at.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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10/21/2021 12:14 PM
significant grumblings among Belgian racers about the costs and logistics associated with the American races


asking them to be here for 4 weeks is definitely a challenge....while I am sure most of them have "race families" they stay with vs. hotels, just the logistics of moving from WI to AR to IA is tough. Seems like it would have made more sense to go from WI --> IA --> AR.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
eurochien

Posts:143

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10/21/2021 06:40 PM
I'm wondering if CX growth has stalled for a while. I don't follow it as much as I used to for sure, but it also sounds like gravel has taken a bite out of CX? I dunno.
Dale

Posts:1533

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10/21/2021 07:09 PM
I thought that was stupid when they announced the three races. Horrible logistics, and none of the places have decent airport connections, and as mentioned WI-IA-AR made a lot more sense.

I heard several say they look forward to being back home. Well, duh... for many of them a race is a couple hours from their home or they can easily get there in their motorhome and not fuss with hotels, crazy travel, or catsup on their frites.

Side note: while all this was going on I was hiking in Colorado and ran into Ellen Noble on some peak above Boulder. Had a brief but nice chat.
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 10/21/2021 12:14 PM
significant grumblings among Belgian racers about the costs and logistics associated with the American races


asking them to be here for 4 weeks is definitely a challenge....while I am sure most of them have "race families" they stay with vs. hotels, just the logistics of moving from WI to AR to IA is tough. Seems like it would have made more sense to go from WI --> IA --> AR.


Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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10/22/2021 09:09 AM
not fuss with hotels, crazy travel, or catsup on their frites.


Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1533

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10/22/2021 08:06 PM
Hahaha... glad you caught that. Somewhere there's a video of Sven Nys working in the cafeteria at Trek and all he serves is frites with mayo.
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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10/22/2021 09:53 PM
Haha I caught that too but don’t have talents to post memes.

Proud to say the fam is 100% frites with mayo. Curious how long the tradition will live with the offspring. Of course frites w curry ketchup, mayo and raw onions (frites speciaal) is another way to go .

Couple weekends ago we had a Belgian beer and Bitterballen party w some other couples, one Dutch one Belgian. All w Brit/Canuck wifes.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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10/25/2021 09:11 AM
Good races yesterday in Zonhoven....man that sand just sapped the energy from their legs. The men's race was especially good, I thought w/ Toon Aerts making a late attack after sliding out a few laps earlier.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1533

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10/25/2021 05:04 PM
OC can attest to the fact that Belgian sand is not like anything in the US, at least not that I've even seen.

A very fine grain and deep. It's like hitting a bog.

One of the guys I know raced Masters a couple times there and said when he trained specifically for Belgium his US results got worse but when it came to Worlds (with a last row call-up) he worked his way to the front and ended up 2nd or 3rd.
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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10/25/2021 06:03 PM
Dale - I doubt you would encounter anything like that Belgian sand where you are.

But I can attest that type of sand is abundant in the Bend, Oregon area. Ben and I put our faces in it a few times on Day 1 of the Oregon Trail Gravel Grinder (gravel? Hah!). Ben subsequently missed far more "fun" in deep sand sectors on Day 4. I stayed upright (mostly) but ultimately the sand killed the first iteration of my Diverge (sheered off top tube from too many slow motion spills those five days). I limped to finish on said broken frame, the bike making death sounds all the way those final 20 kms. I have no idea how the old Oregon Trail pioneers got their wagons through this vile stuff. Must have been hell.
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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10/27/2021 02:45 PM
Sounds like VDP and Pidcock have confirmed their intent to partake in Lafayette Worlds but van Aert is still in doubt as it may interfere with his road racing goals. Ironically, Lafayette has been deemed relatively suitable to Wout's strengths (power) and less suitable to VDP (course is not very technical).
longslowdistance

Posts:2492

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11/04/2021 08:37 PM
How did the US cross center of gravity end up in Arkansas? I get how the Road Worlds came to Richmond, VA 6 years ago: Tour DuPont had a very successful history, and a few pro races later did OK, the course was good enough, even pretty good. All in all the 2015 Worlds was a success. But northern Euro mud fettish meets US redneck heartland? WTF? Please fill me in.
Orange Crush

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11/05/2021 02:39 AM
https://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2021/08/01/walton-foundation-adds-1-4-million-in-grant-funding-for-cyclocross-races-in-fayetteville/
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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11/05/2021 06:40 AM
In addition, Walmart is now the title sponsor for the World Championships in January.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:2816

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11/05/2021 11:15 AM
No comments here on redneck country 'cross racing. Just read the CyclingNews article on Blanka Kata Vas. 20 years old and maybe the next Marianne Vos.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/blanka-kata-vas-multi-discipline-cycling-star-inspired-by-vos-and-ferrand-prevot/
Dale

Posts:1533

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11/05/2021 12:38 PM
The millionaires and billionaires are pouring $$$$ into this part of the country.

Walton grandsons in Arkansas, O'Reilly (auto parts stores and hospitality businesses), and another not made public yet. The latter two projects in SW MO; one 15 miles from my house and the newest one, which may be a membership model met/ downhill park, about 20 miles away.

The city gave permission for a mbt trail around the main water supply lake. 20 minutes to the trailheads as well. When they're done it'll be over 30 miles of trails, most of which is well suited for new riders with minimal elevation gain and not very technical. There's about 15 miles completed and I'm heading there in an hour or so. Probably do out and back from the middle and end up with ~25 miles.

Heady times, my friends, heady times. Road? I hardly knew ye.
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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11/05/2021 04:39 PM
Posted By 79 pmooney on 11/05/2021 11:15 AM
No comments here on redneck country 'cross racing. Just read the CyclingNews article on Blanka Kata Vas. 20 years old and maybe the next Marianne Vos.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/blanka-kata-vas-multi-discipline-cycling-star-inspired-by-vos-and-ferrand-prevot/


Good to see how many different women have won races this year. It’s a diverse and competitive field.
longslowdistance

Posts:2492

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11/05/2021 06:17 PM
Great responses
I summarize:
OC: Money Talks
CK: Big Daddy wants
Dale: trickle down, too!
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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11/14/2021 02:35 PM
Posted By 79 pmooney on 11/05/2021 11:15 AM
No comments here on redneck country 'cross racing. Just read the CyclingNews article on Blanka Kata Vas. 20 years old and maybe the next Marianne Vos.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/blanka-kata-vas-multi-discipline-cycling-star-inspired-by-vos-and-ferrand-prevot/


Looks like the orange have an up and coming star as well. Puck Pieterse 19 years old, 2nd in Tabor. Also w MTB pedigree.
79pmooney

Posts:2816

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11/15/2021 11:36 PM
I had intimate acquaintances with a few Pucks in my years as hockey goal tender. But my dalliances were always with even younger ones. I wouldn't want to mess with a 19 yo. That'd be some pretty hard rubber. (And capitalizing the ones that leave scars is grammatically quite proper. If you don't believe me, feel free to take a few slapshots.)
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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11/28/2021 01:58 PM
A Canadian doing well in the Euro mud. Hopefully more to come. https://cyclingmagazine.ca/cyclocross/maghalie-rochette-runner-up-in-muddy-besancon-france-round-of-the-world-cup/
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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12/06/2021 11:55 AM
While not a World Cup CX race, Wout absolutely destroyed the Super Prestige race on Saturday....at one point, he was up ~2' over the main pack of rivals, which included all the other contenders from the races so far this year.....simply on a different level than everyone else on Saturday.

And what a slopfest, too....that was a proper CX course with lots of technical sections and run-ups.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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12/06/2021 12:20 PM
Adrie had predicted that Wout would destroy the field although the winning margin was almost twice what he predicted. Lots of mud and lots of running meant a course that was perfect for van Aert. The guy is one of the best runners out there and participated in a few running races during his break (incidentally Wout has seen Dumoulin run a 10k and he says it was scary fast).

As Adrie put it, "the others" will have to rethink how they spend their summers and participate in higher end races to bridge the performance gap.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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12/06/2021 12:29 PM
No doubt it was a perfect course / conditions for Wout....but his winning move came from powering up one of the short, steep climbs vs. running like all the others did. From there, his running skills just let him pile on the time.

Toon Aerts, another good "mudder", was with him for a bit until crashes put an end to his effort. Pidcock looked absolutely spent about 3/4 of the way through the race.....
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1533

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12/06/2021 01:00 PM
That was just a beat down. Can't wait for him a MVdP to go head to head.
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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12/06/2021 01:20 PM
I think we will see a gradual build by Pidcock and MVDP towards worlds. Suspect van Aert will better both in December. MVDP reportedly has been taking things real easy to date although the team has a Spain training camp coming up.
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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12/06/2021 02:22 PM
Could have saved some typing. They ended up translating it: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/adrie-van-der-poel-predicted-van-aerts-successful-cyclo-cross-debut-after-spying-on-his-strava-data/
longslowdistance

Posts:2492

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12/06/2021 08:01 PM
I was deep into alpine skiing a few decades ago. The full hearted decried "wicket robots" who skied technically perfectly but had no heart. Who can love a robot?
Hello pro cycling.
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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12/06/2021 08:25 PM
Lots of heart in pro cycling last number of years. And there’s always been heart in spring classics. Just the stage races turned into chess on wheels. Then again always liked slalom better than downhill or super G which seem pretty boring. Better like rally cross than formula 1 etc.

Tomba la Bomba!
Dale

Posts:1533

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12/07/2021 08:24 AM
Stage racing has devolved into an accountants game- scripted, calculated, generally dull until they throw in a day where the stage is short and the attacks start at the gun and it becomes a full on knife fight.
longslowdistance

Posts:2492

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12/07/2021 10:52 PM
OC is correct, my rant was focused on the grand tours. Small caps, as that is mostly what they are now, mostly. So if I were emperor I would ban race radios beyond warnings of road hazards and would surely ban power meters. In other words, I would ban robots.

Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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12/26/2021 01:05 PM
Nice win by Wout today….hopefully gives him a mental boost moving forward, even if MVP is still not at full speed yet. He completely dominated the race.

Also a great ride by Toon Aerts to finish on the podium. Went from the start and took the race to both Wout and MVP.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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12/28/2021 11:43 AM
Doubt we’ll see VDP in another cross this year. There was an article on his injury history the other day. Seems he’s had back issues since his youth, in fact his junior road worlds title seems to have come straight after a back injury recovery. Best scenario seems to be recovering in time for spring classics. Give how chronic this is he’ll likely have to start managing his objectives more carefully.
Dale

Posts:1533

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12/28/2021 04:12 PM
^
I expect to see WvA in Fayetteville and for him to mop the field. Even if MVdP shows up... which is at this point doubtful, I can't see him threatening the top podium step. 2nd would be a good day for him given the current circumstances but as OC opines, he ought to be more selective in what he chooses to race.

To my surprise when I told my wife of my plans to watch, she said she wants to go as well. Hotels are stupid expensive that week but we've thrown money at dumber things. Probably get in some hiking in the mornings before the races. Loads of cool hikes in that area so it's going to be a fun weekend.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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12/31/2021 07:01 AM
Dale, I got 2 rooms in Bentonville for cheap. Only 40 min away and great riding (as you know)

Undecided if I will go given the current state of the world.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1533

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12/31/2021 07:24 AM
I was in that part of AR yesterday and drove to the venue. No parking on site, they'll run shuttle buses.

We've booked a cabin at Devils Den State Park about 40 minutes south of Fayetteville with hiking right outside the cabin's door. Cool place built in the 1930's by the CCC. They used to have a stage race there with a brutal uphill TT. Steve Tilford had one of his many crashes there- he finished his warmup then descending somehow went down. He posted his GPS file where he went from 40 to zero in short order.

You've got my email? Keep me posted on your plans.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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12/31/2021 01:03 PM
You've got my email? Keep me posted on your plans


Will do!!!
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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12/31/2021 01:12 PM
Posted By Dale Dale on 12/31/2021 07:24 AM
We've booked a cabin at Devils Den State Park about 40 minutes south of Fayetteville with hiking right outside the cabin's door.


This better be with a shouldered bike.
Dale

Posts:1533

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12/31/2021 02:20 PM
bwahaha... pass, my wife already thinks I'm nuts.

And todays public service announcement. When getting on a mountain bike do not use the cyclocross flying leap technique, the saddle-to-ground height is not the same. I was fooling around in the parking lot and about injured myself trying to look cool.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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01/03/2022 11:47 AM
Nice win for Pidcock in Hulst, even if it was slightly assisted by Wout's drivetrain mechanical.

brandt continues to dominate the women's field....really impressive.

That was a super-technical course and fun to watch.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1533

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01/03/2022 01:55 PM
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 01/03/2022 11:47 AM

brandt continues to dominate the women's field....really impressive.


You see what Brandt said about Alvarado being held up by a lapped rider?

As someone who's been lapped occasionally I figure it's my job to get the heck out of the way and not factor in on the finish. Poor form for the US rider to not just move hard left to give a clear line for Alvarado. Looks like she held up Brandt a bit as well but really messed up Alvarado.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brand-criticises-uci-over-lapped-rider-rules/
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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01/03/2022 02:10 PM
Poor form for the US rider to not just move hard left to give a clear line for Alvarado.


Absolutely....how hard is it to understand that when the leaders are even close to you, you get the hell out of the way? Sucked for Alvarado.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1533

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01/03/2022 02:33 PM
Speaking of getting lapped... Hermann, MO a bunch of years ago at Dogfish Cross they lumped all the masters in to one field with staggered starts. 40's go, 50's go, 60's go all with a 30 or 45 second gap between. I've already spotted a full minute or more to my team mate who kills the 40+ field not to mention the 50's and 60's and in a 45 minute race, sure enough and I look back here he comes.

Problem is I'm 300 meters from the finish and don't want to do another lap so I ease up. He's got a monster gap on 2nd so HE lets up, laughing to himself that he's not going to lap me so I have to keep going. I see what's going on and let up more. We're now both about track standing and I say, "Heck with that," stomp the pedals, sprint to the finish line, and post up. Everyone there, except the officials and my team mate, think I just won... photos of me, people yelling, etc.

The official rolled his eyes, shook his head, laughed a little, and waved me off the course.

My teammate rolled through a few seconds later laughing at my idiot move.
He did point out his winnings to my 10th place, or whatever it was with no payout.
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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01/03/2022 06:15 PM
As Brand (nor Brandt) said it’s not about the specific rider, it happens all the time. I could see moving out of the way being tricky on technical courses.

It’s about how race officials and rules deal with lapped riders. Apparently Brand offered suggestions last year but no response.
Cosmic Kid

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01/03/2022 09:38 PM
Great story, Dale!
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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01/05/2022 09:39 AM
that’s funny Dale.

No VDP and no van Aert at worlds this year.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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01/05/2022 09:47 AM
Did Wout confirm that? haven't seen that yet....

Would be a big mnistake, IMO, especially since MVP is definitely out now....golden opportunity to grab the rainbow jersey.

But if if his concern is COVID related, I would totally understand that.

ETA - Just saw Wout has confirmed no Worlds. Bummer. Looks like it may be Pidcock's for the taking. https://cyclingtips.com/2022/01/wout-van-aert-wont-ride-cyclocross-world-championships/
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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01/05/2022 10:02 AM
Confirmed it today. Belgian Champs will be his final race then he’s focusing on goals on road. NM didn’t read all the way down, looks like it was translated and you found it. On a good day and suitable course it could be Pidcock’s to loose but he’s beatable by some of the Belgians.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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01/05/2022 11:35 AM
On a good day and suitable course it could be Pidcock’s to loose but he’s beatable by some of the Belgians.


Conditions will definitely play a big role....if it is dry and fast, team tactics could very well come into play on that course.

If it is wet & sloppy like the WC race in October, it definitely favors Pidcock.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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01/05/2022 12:01 PM
I thought Pidcock faired poorly on a recent excessively muddy race (being a lightweight) but maybe I'm mistaken. I'd think what favors him is technical and/or climbing. What I read about Fayetteville is that irrespective of fast versus sloppy the course might have favored van Aert over MVDP if they had attended as it isn't particularly technical and more of a power course.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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01/05/2022 12:12 PM
Fair point...I was referring more to wet & sloppy equating to more running vs. riding through on pure power. For the WC race, Hermans isn't exactly a big numbers guy, but he essentially ran away from the field.

But I wouldn't under-estimate Pidcock's power, either....remember he came within a mm of beating Wout at Amstel in the sprint!

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1533

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01/05/2022 03:37 PM
World Champions jersey this year --> *******
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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01/05/2022 03:53 PM
BTW....I am officially not going down to CX Worlds, Dale. Too risky with Mrs. CK's compromised immune system right now.

And w/o Wout and MVP, the race has lost a bit of its appeal.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1533

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01/05/2022 04:59 PM
Figured that might be the case, CK. If I didn't live so close and have other stuff to do there that weekend I'd skip it as well.

My youngest daughter was at the Rose Bowl with her soon-to-be-husband and his family... diagnosed with Covid this morning. The whole group has been vaccinated but most are now showing symptoms.

Lemme see... 100,000 people crammed into a stadium where everyone is screaming at the top of their lungs, yeah, nothing bad could come of that.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3730

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01/05/2022 06:09 PM
Best wishes for a speedy recovery for all!
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1533

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01/27/2022 09:41 AM
Brook Watts on his roll as event-services director and course consultant, and subsequent firing from that roll over his statements on Arkansas's recently passed legislation.

Interesting that he was at odds with the trail builder and others over the course and his efforts to not have it dumbed down. He only partially succeeded, banked corners instead of off-camber turns, wide open and not very technical. Sure, it'll be a hard race but won't favor true cx skilled riders.

My experience with Arkansas CX has been horrible... I've raced there half dozen times and you can't get them to purge the MBT mentality out of their course layouts. Most are not USAC so they get to throw out the regulations and make up what they want-- 4' between fences, 1/2 mile laps, curb transitions without ramps so you have to bunny hop street crossings. When I complained to a buddy about flatting a tubular last fall on one of many sharp rocks jutting up he told me, "Shut up, you knew it was Arkansas when you signed up. You got what you deserved." True dat. BTW, the races are not by age or category, they're by time! Want to race 15 minutes? There's a category for that. 45? Yup, got that too.

Brook put on two races in AR that were legit but the locals can't grasp CX.


https://www.velonews.com/culture/commentary-how-i-brought-the-worlds-to-fayetteville-and-why-i-wont-be-there/?fbclid=IwAR2ZtjzbU_hOfIbt3CrsesPj0Zp8iBO0ajjvD_vhT-T05bKYrQFrGtx0ljk
Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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01/27/2022 11:27 AM
Sounds like the conditions are hard pack and it will be fast races.

Reads like the course is an attempt at a bit of a mix of everything from various European races. Not a fan of that approach. You're in Arkansas, showcase it, be original. Even if that slashes Dale's tires, haha. As long as it remains CX and not MTB.

Orange Crush

Posts:3752

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01/28/2022 09:44 AM
The incredible story of Costa Rica’s entrant who has links to Portland. Came across it in Sporza today this is best English version I could find

https://bikeportland.org/2021/12/02/podcast-tragedy-and-triumph-the-story-of-felipe-nystrom-341744

Full transcript to get the entire story of a peace corps mom, native dad that he never knew, abuse, parties drugs 7 suïcide attempts and eventually a move to US and cycling
https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Felipe-Nystrom-Interview-Transcript.pdf


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