The Tour! Spoilers - VeloNation - Cycling Forums, Bicycle Forums, Community Forums

Posts:3180

07/02/2023 11:15 AM
So far, I'm liking. (After opening Sunday). Yesterday's crash taking out two team leaders sucked but for the most part, it hasn't been an opening weekend crash derby. I think the roads have had a lot to do with it. Seriously hard but not yet true mountains. Fun to see Victor Lafay take advantage of the favorites watching each other, then Van Aert waiting too long to go. New face to me but I'm impressed. Second day he's been active. OC, do you have a scoop on him?

Posts:4499

07/02/2023 12:35 PM
No scoop. All I know is that lots of fingers are pointing to Jonas as needing to help out van Aert in that instance. Wout had already controlled things on several occasions and needed to hold back for sprint. Benoot and Kelderman were also sapped which just left Vingegaard. But I can see flipside in which Wout and Pog are 1-2 and Jonas loses more seconds. Tell that to the Belgians 😂

Posts:2881

07/02/2023 05:43 PM
Another fan. Excellent courses to start the race. Huge fan turnout - who sometimes ignored the barriers.

huckleberry

Posts:824

07/03/2023 01:24 PM
F#ck the Belgians. JV did the right thing. WVA is one of my favorites, but he was outfoxed. Love that Cofidis finally got the win.

Posts:1767

07/06/2023 10:53 AM
That was savage! I thought fish guy sat on the front way too long and expected Pogačar to attack but thought it would come with a few hundred meter to go, not 2k.

Posts:4499

07/06/2023 12:43 PM
It's a two-horse race already but game on. Pog looked comfortable behind Jonas so I was wondering about JV's game plan; the attack didn't come as a surprise. Definitely liking this years course, more varied like what Giro typically does, with GC action from the start. But not expecting to see this every year because major parts of France are not being visited this year.

Posts:2881

07/06/2023 07:54 PM
Just watched the replay. WVA is such a stud. Give him another raise!

Posts:2881

07/06/2023 07:57 PM
PS: tech question: the feed from the motos includes the crowd noise but no moto noise. I don't know how they do it, but I am impressed.

Posts:2881

07/06/2023 07:59 PM
PPS: a holes with flares go f yourselves

Posts:4209

07/07/2023 10:34 AM
Wow....I thought Cav had it today. He played it perfectly as he could...he had to launch then or lose his momentum. He just got beat by a faster guy. Jasper was impressive today....Alpecin made a bit of a mess of the sprint. They hit the front too early and ran out of guys. MVP had to sit up as a result and then reaccelerate. But Jasper was able to use his raw speed to overcome the tactical errors. Just a great race overall, so far....

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

07/07/2023 11:01 AM
VDP noted they could not see distance markers that they use for timing of leadout. He'd been sprinting for a while and then suddenly saw it was still 300 to go. Jasper made the most of it by using Cav. Girmay seemed not happy about Jasper's move on Cav's wheel which effectively cut him off. It was a fairly massive sideways move. Comparatively Girmay had no issue with the shoulder bump he received from VDP the other day, which saw VDP relegated. What is or isn't allowed in sprints remains wildly subjective. Maybe from Girmay's perspective is that in the earlier incident he was not in contention anyway, today he was.

Posts:2881

07/07/2023 02:56 PM
If Cav had VDP for a leadout man . . .

Posts:3180

07/07/2023 06:01 PM
This Tour is shaping up to be a Tour of the super domestiques. No, they don't quite butt heads or at least, not very often but ... VDP and Kuss, at their respective arenas, are world class. (Been a fan of Kuss since he tore apart that Utah race.)

Posts:4499

07/07/2023 09:24 PM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 07/07/2023 02:56 PM If Cav had VDP for a leadout man . . . Cees Bol is a certified excellent leadout. Seems Cav had some gearing issues that may have cost the win.

Posts:2881

07/08/2023 07:03 AM
Not what I've seen, at least so far. Jasper hasn't had to start his sprint 10 or 20 bike lengths back.

Posts:3180

07/08/2023 09:17 AM
Sad news. We just lost Cav. Sounds like a collarbone. (Just saw the photo of him sitting there holding his shoulder and grimacing.) I was just thinking about how mechanicals seem to be costing riders races at a rate I never recall BITD. (Yes, Fuentes struggled with his bar ends and lost Merckx in the mountains, 1971 Giro but I suspect the Cannibal was going to eat him anyway.) But recent years? Schleck's famous chain drop that cost him the biggest race there is. Chain drops and jams seem commonplace. Now at the amateur level, mechanicals have always happened. I watched two NR cranks break from the best view in the house, on those rider's wheels. I dropped a chain twice in my hardest race ever. (Didn't realize the FD limit screws needed to be a half turn tighter so both high and low rubbed when running my Uniglide race chain vs the Sedis training chain. CN has said twice now that Cav was limited in yesterday's sprint by a mechanical. Never heard what the issue was. But if so, a little heartbreaker if it kept him from acquiring that 35th win the day before the window closed so harshly.

Posts:4499

07/08/2023 09:36 AM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 07/08/2023 07:03 AM Not what I've seen, at least so far. Jasper hasn't had to start his sprint 10 or 20 bike lengths back. That isn’t a Bol versus VDP difference though. Rickert is a beast, so is Krag Anderson. It allows VDP to time his effort. In Cavs words Bol has often needed to start early. Anyway we just. Lost Cav so now maybe Bol can go for is own chances but limited flat stages left. Ben, the apparent issue was chain skipping between 11 and 12 cogs in sprint.

Posts:3180

07/08/2023 04:14 PM
Hmmm. BITD setting the RD to make the chain wander between two cogs was near impossible despite having the perfect ability to place the RD anywhere with those friction shifters. Now replicating the "wandering" chain (at least with my Shimano FWs) is easy. And drives me nuts. I much prefer the older Sacks/Sedis FWs and my 9-speed Campy cassette for doing a better job of staying put (or if unhappy enough, shifting once and being done with it).

Posts:3180

07/09/2023 11:27 AM
What a day. North America 1st and 2nd. Top two GCs battling on an epic climb. (But not quite the epic battle of Poulidor and Anquetil. That photo! Cycling News Live Report https://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-de-france-2023/stage-9/live-report/ @4:01:41 Side by side with full contact, forearms and elbows. Riding as I was taught, with handlebars even.

Posts:4499

07/11/2023 11:44 PM
Best stage and best win so far. #rideforGino But what were the involuntary twins doing?

Posts:2881

07/13/2023 06:50 PM
The first half of the last two stages have been amazing. This is on track to be the most compelling Tour since 1989.

Posts:2881

07/13/2023 06:50 PM
PS sad that Cav’s exit is part of this story.

Posts:3180

07/13/2023 08:09 PM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 07/13/2023 06:50 PM PS sad that Cav’s exit is part of this story. Yes. On the other hand, it does keep Eddie with his often so much more difficult stage wins in the record book. I noted Cav went down hanging at the back. Went down due to to amplification of speed changes at the front. Eddy would have been at the front and missed the bad stuff entirely.

Posts:4499

07/15/2023 03:49 PM
Was that the hardest fought one second in cycling history ?

Posts:3180

07/15/2023 03:54 PM
The Tour screwed up royally today. On the final HC up Plane, everybody knew Pogacar was going and that he has huge springs in his legs. Everybody but the two motor bikes. How does that happen?

Posts:3180

07/15/2023 04:00 PM
Posted By Orange Crush on 07/15/2023 03:49 PM Was that the hardest fought one second in cycling history ? I wanted to see Pogacar crest alone, barely ahead then see if he could stay ahead and reap some more seconds. I feel we both go cheated.

Posts:4499

07/15/2023 05:06 PM
The problem first and foremost was with ASO lack of crowd control. You have a summit with a bonus sprint and use some cheap rope to hold back thousands? With proper crowd control those motos can get out of way no problem. They should have anticipated better but still. Not sure that Pog would have been able to create a gap. Vingegaard reeled him in nicely on first try and Pog couldn’t create a gap at finish line either. His looks back when he was ahead for awhile we’re telling. Fish Guy is still there?! Also Vingegaard maybe the slightly better descender or at least on par.

Posts:2881

07/15/2023 09:06 PM
? Well you got me there, voluntary vs involuntary twins! Another very good stage (IMO), tomorrow may be huge.

Posts:4499

07/16/2023 07:13 AM
The involuntary twins was VDPs and Van Aerts uncharacteristic totally mistimed brief escape.

Posts:2881

07/16/2023 07:25 PM
Any repercussions for the as*hole dumbass who took out several riders today?

Posts:4499

07/17/2023 09:36 AM
He’s been identified by police and JV will likely file a police report. So most likely there will be repercussions similar to omi and opi.

Posts:2881

07/17/2023 07:08 PM
Pondering here: Does any other sport allow so many fans such proximity to the athletes?

Posts:4499

07/17/2023 09:51 PM
Marathons have pretty big crowds but it’s a street circuit and better controlled much like crits or that final lap they’ll be doing on champs. Bunch of other sports with uncontrolled spectating but typically only a fraction of the crowds. I mean, hard time imagining wild scenes at a triathlon.

Posts:3180

07/18/2023 10:36 AM
Wow! Not what I expected. (The TT. Just happened so I won't say more.)

Posts:1767

07/18/2023 10:40 AM
That he almost caught his 2 minute man who was right behind HIS two minute man! Mind. Blown.

Posts:2881

07/18/2023 10:53 AM
Beatdown

Posts:4499

07/18/2023 11:03 AM
For how impressive Pog was compared to those behind him he constantly looked a little distracted on his bike. The bike change was also not necessarily a good idea seeing how much time Vingegaard spent in the aero position up that final climb. Wow.

Posts:4209

07/18/2023 03:16 PM
I thought the stage today could go either way....but the most either would take would be ~20". Never expected a beatdown like that....FFS, JV beat Wout by almost 3 min!!! BUT....the race is not over. Still two very hard stages in the mountains. Obviously it looks very good for JV, but 1'48" is not insurmountable., and certainly not for someone of Pog's abilities. UAE needs to ride hard tempo tomorrow to keep breaks in control and keep the time bonuses in play. They then need to repeatedly attack JV....and not in the final few KM. Since there is no one they can put up the road to get J-V to chase, it is gonna have to be Pog himself. I woudl think he needs to do multiple "dummy" attacks.....attack, ride a "false tempo", let JV catch back on and then go again. Pog won't get the gap with only one move....he needs to wear Jonas down with multiple attacks.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:1767

07/18/2023 03:32 PM
^ This. Pog has the explosive power that JV lacks. Multiple jabs to wear him down then boom full out attack. Ideally with one or two domistiques up the road to help seal the deal.

Posts:2881

07/18/2023 04:35 PM
Extraterrestrial

Posts:4499

07/18/2023 06:11 PM
It will be tricky. Going from far out would seem required but it plays to Fish Guy's strength. Pog is more a guy of shorter intense bursts. Best approach for tomorrow would seem easy pace till km 17 of La Loze, have Adam set an infernal base right from there to shed the domestiques (first point with significant consistent steepness to drop the likes of Wout), then have Pog give it a go till km 29. That's still a 12 km effort. Pog lost time on Loze against Roglic in 2020 and I would not be surprised if Jonas puts him to the sword. If that fails the double Cat 1 climb at end Saturday would offer opportunity although I am not putting it beyond Pog to try and light a match on Fridays rollers, that stage looks easier than it is supposedly. Classics terrain that is Vingegaard's weakness. And if that happens, don't be surprised if VDP lends a hand, hahaha. He has been biding his time with viral infection hampering him but at some point he will still want to give it a serious whirl.

Posts:4499

07/18/2023 08:37 PM
Dumoulin was mostly impressed with time Vingegaard gained on technical downhill taking each corner with perfection. “Time trial porn”

Posts:4209

07/19/2023 10:23 AM
Welp....looks like that is that. Was hoping to see Pog attack, but that ain't happening. Wonder if the time off for his wrist was just too long and he therefore lacked the foundation necessary to contest the Tour across 3 weeks.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

07/19/2023 10:34 AM
Yes I think the effects of limited training base started to show yesterday and came into full force today. Perhaps that crash today was also a factor, sounds like he fell on his injured wrist. Paperboy for many up that final ramp, yikes. And what a crock again with stalled car, moto. The Flying Fish FTW.

Posts:4209

07/19/2023 10:41 AM
Given how Pog looked crossing the line, UAE may need to seriously evaluate whether he finishes the race. Saturday's stage is brutal and if there is something wrong with Pog (vs. just lacking miles), they may need to yank him.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

07/19/2023 11:53 AM
Just empty but sounds like he wants to soldier on and fight for his podium spot.

Posts:4209

07/19/2023 12:10 PM
We'll see how he fares tomorrow....not too tough a stage, but a bit hilly. If he is still on empty, they should pull him.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:4499

07/19/2023 04:26 PM
Its good to see Pog is human after all. Even a massive talent like him can't keep faking limited training with impunity. And/or perhaps the effects of what is already a long racing season. And/or perhaps spending his rest day doing poolside backflips instead of resting. Meanwhile poor Jonas even with massive buffer is still loath to call it done and dusted and he will stay hyper focused until the finish line in Paris. But this is a guy who was so nervous in his first year at JV he kept puking before every race and tanked a few races real hard because of it. Roglic and his wife have managed to set him mostly straight but relaxing like Pog is still not in his dictionary. Mr Citron (after Fignon) is emerging as a new nickname. But then again, a few drops of lemon on fish is very tasty.

Posts:4209

07/19/2023 04:41 PM
Yeah, I think JV is gonna struggle with the mental health aspect of his success / pressure for most of his career. Remember how he just dropped off the grid last year after the Tour because he was so uncomfortable with all the attention. TBH, I'm impressed he could bounce back the way he did....it would have simply cracked most people, I think.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!

Posts:2881

07/19/2023 08:29 PM
Not to mention Pog’s dislike of hot, and it’s hot there now. Bigger picture: record setting climbs, etc. Yellow Jersey admits smells bad but deflects. Deflection and ducking worked well in the early EPO days, for example 5 time Tour winner Indurain laid low and kept his mouth shut and endures as a Champion. And to those false equivalency types who say “what about”, there is no comparison of what Ocona and Merckx took compared to the EPO era. Not at all. From a bird’s eye view, we have entered a new major step forward in doping. The Denmark shunned club is open for new members to join Riis

Posts:2881

07/20/2023 08:09 PM
Rant over. Sorry. Great entertainment today. C did resemble Rudy, laying it all down for the team.

Posts:3180

07/20/2023 09:44 PM
Satisfying race today. I "saw" Philipsen giving Eenkhoorn a hard tine CN Live Updates: 75 km to go "07:12:17 Behind Philipsen tries to bully rival Pascal Eenkhoorn from attacking." For him get across and let Campenaerts focus on driving the break, thus denying Philipsen the podium at the finish - sweet justice! And Soudal-QS finally taking a stage - 'bout time! And the entire break getting to the podium, I like!

Posts:3180

07/20/2023 09:48 PM
And fun thought - Asgreen owes Campenaerts a favor. Maybe someday Campanaerts can pull off a big win with a little key help from a Kasper Asgreen? How'd that happen?

Posts:4499

07/21/2023 10:01 AM
So much wasted effort by Campenaerts these last two days with nothing to show for it. Eenkhoorn and Philipsen are two peas of same pot, both a bit aggresive. Right before Philipsen set him straight, Eenkhoorn almost crashed a bunch of guys using the berm and then the road to try escape. That's in part what the incident was about. Interesting battle between Trek and Alpecin these last two days; Pedersen still hasn't given up on green; that battle is in part why the group stayed away yesterday. Neither team wanted to commit too early. Pedersen had a great TT the other day. Another great stage today and the battle continues. When Pedersen goes; VDP and Philipsen are on him. Mohoric with the better bike throw; no second win for Asgreen.

Posts:4499

07/21/2023 11:59 AM
Yellow seems like a lock; green is now also a lock with Phillipsen eking out Pedersen. Polka still in contention. And depending how Pog has recovered, white could be in contention LOL. Funny that he's still in white having won yellow twice already.

Posts:2881

07/22/2023 10:51 PM
Chapeau Thibaut.

Posts:1767

07/24/2023 09:40 AM
That was the best Tour since Contador beat Armstrong

Posts:4209

07/24/2023 10:54 AM
Phillipsen eking out Pedersen. He won by 119 points....I think it was more than just "eking".....😜

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!