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Bring back Marco and Lance
Last Post 01/27/2016 12:22 AM by ed custer. 15 Replies.
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stronz

Posts:447

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12/22/2015 10:31 AM
so I've been in the basement riding the trainer in the mornings for a few months now.   Watched the 2013 Tour, 2012 Tour and now watching 2000 Tour.

Flame me if you want but -- those bastards in 2000 raced hard and balls out and were so much more exciting to watch than the G-d awful yawners in the 12 and 13 tours.   Watching Wiggins ride is painfully boring.  He NEVER attacked.   Froome is only slightly better.   Dont know if its the 'roids or EPO or cocaine or turpentine they were rubbing on their prostates back in the day -  but the racing used to be better.   A lot better.

I know there was one good Vuelta in 2012 and that Contador and Purito are more in the old mold of attacking and bridging up to a lead group during an otherwise boring stage.   But -- it seems the days of the attackers are going going gone.
zootracer

Posts:567

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12/22/2015 11:05 AM
I hear you. L.A. was a doper, but those years he rode made watching TDF exciting.
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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12/22/2015 11:46 AM
The Postal train years were supremely boring for same reason as Skytrain years have been boring - too much team dominance, waaayyy to predictable.

If there's anything that should be brought back it's the Golden years of cycling...Hinault, Fignon, Lemond, Herrera, Raas. Kneteman, Kuiper. Nothing since then has come close except in the classics.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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12/22/2015 12:11 PM
OC nailed it.

Go back and watch the Lemond tours (since those are easily available)....all the favorites are isolated by the middle climbs on mountain stages, racing all out for the majority of the stage.

I am always puzzled when people say the LA years were exciting....the only years that were exciting were 99 (because no one knew if he could hang on) and '03 (when LA was clearly off his game). every other year was over by the first mountain stage and were largely processional.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
zootracer

Posts:567

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12/22/2015 12:31 PM
Most likely I found those L.A. years "exciting" is because of the television coverage and all the hype. You can sit in front of your t.v. and watch most of the stages on a dvr. Didn't have that advantage back in the golden years.

Now for exciting, I get to ride my bike today after a long soggy week in NorCal......
stronz

Posts:447

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12/22/2015 01:36 PM
youre probably right about the LeMond years being better racing. When I watch those - it is hard to follow the race as the intervals and situations on the road are not as clearly described. The coverage definitely helps follow the Lance tours.

Still partial to the epic battles during lance's years -- head to head v Pantani on Hauticam (which included an epic solo bridge up to lead group) and Ventoux, Bonking on Corcheval, Alpe dHuez throwdown, 2003 v Ullrich when Jan almost did win, coming back in 04 (I went to that tour) when Lance was dominant but Basso gave him a good run- in retrospect that was a bit boring. Also dealing with a pesky Rasmussen

drugs or not - would be nice if we could have a ballsy guy(Sagan comes to mind) who is an attacker in the grand tours and a legit GC threat.
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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12/22/2015 01:58 PM
Posted By stronzo nonfumare on 12/22/2015 01:36 PM
y

drugs or not - would be nice if we could have a ballsy guy(Sagan comes to mind) who is an attacker in the grand tours and a legit GC threat.


This is bound to be unsuccessful and will just be stifled by a strong team hauling him back. Drugs aside, one of the key differences between the Golden era and modern cycling is that Joe Packfiller is now a much better cyclist. This increase in baseline performance of the pack as a whole makes it much harder for attackers to stand out and make it stick. What's needed is smaller teams to counterbalance this trend. You can kind of see this in Giro where teams do not tend to be as strong because stronger helpers are kept back for Tour. It leads to more action.
stronz

Posts:447

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12/22/2015 02:27 PM

OC - you make good points. you are a lot smarter than you look
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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12/22/2015 02:31 PM
Did I miss the memo that declared Sagan a "legit" GC threat?

If I were Froome or Quintana and Sagan went up the road, I'd smile and wave with a hearty "Good luck with that!!"

Kinda llike when Thor would go up the road....people would lose their minds and start screaming about how the GC guys can't let him get too far up the road. Uh, yeah they could....same with Sagan.

/thread hijack
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:1474

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12/22/2015 09:23 PM
Old fart/mature perspective post:
If only we had modern video of some of the classic battles: Anquetil shoulder to shoulder with Pou-Pou up the Puy de Dome in '64, or Eddy daring anyone to chase him down the Col de Mente in 71 in a deluge (destroying Ocana in the process), . . . or Roger Rivière, or Coppi.
In the modern TV era, The Badger and LeMond have been perhaps the most exciting winners for me. Marco was fun to watch, but when he was winning it was obvious he was juiced and there was no drama.

Ban the radios. The race will be better.

Maybe 8 man teams to isolate the leaders more.


stronz

Posts:447

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12/23/2015 09:28 AM
"Did I miss the memo that declared Sagan a "legit" GC threat? "

didnt mean to imply he is a legit GC threat (altho let us not forget he did win California 2015)

I meant someone with his attacking style. Who is willing to risk a bit to attack the group with some fire in his belly. Not just playing it safe and controling everything with his boys laying waste to the peleton.

Sould love to have seen Anquetil and Poulidor, Merckx v. everyone, LeMond v Hinault in a way that makes understanding the race possible.

another example - this morning I watched TdF 2000 stage 14 - a big 3 climb stage with downhill finish. Botero (cheater) solo'd to win. But midway thru final climb Pantani attacked the reduced peleton. Lance had around 10 minutes on him at that point and really had no reason to follow, but there was so much animosity and Lance was such a dick that he couldnt help himself and followed Marco, ultimately dropping him and putting around 30 seconds on him and the peleton. Before the top of the mountain the group reeled him back and it was gruppo compacto. Point is Armstrong didnt want Pantani to have any breathing room and either knew he was a rider who could put a big chink of time into everyone on any given climb or just couldnt tolerate seeing Pantani go up the mountain ahead of him. It was an irrational move that maybe wouldnt happen today but was fun to watch.
Yo Mike

Posts:338

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12/23/2015 11:38 AM
"Ban the radios. The race will be better."

+1000

Let the 'team leaders' actually THINK as they race.

What do the radios ADD?

Safety?

Fine: Race officials only will transmit issues with the course or crashes.
stronz

Posts:447

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01/06/2016 08:09 AM
speaking of Marco and Lance -- I watched the stage to Corcheval this morning of tdf 2000. Marco attacks around 9 km from finish. Lance follows with Heras and around 4k to go Marco rides away from them all. The pirate reels in Jimenez at the end to take the victory. As I watched Pantani ride past Jimenez in the final km it occurred to me that they're both dead. Wow. Just sad. Jimenez was a fighter and didnt let Pantani go without a fight. He also stayed with Lance in the stage to Hautacam earlier. Anyway -- 2000 was a good race. Lance was dominant but also not perfect by any means. Famous bonk to Morzine. Assuming Marco was juiced (dont really know if that is fair) but he was sucha brilliant climber it is really entertaining and quite beautiful to watch.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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01/06/2016 09:54 AM
There are a lot of deceased riders that feature in that stage....Pantani, Jimemez, Kivilev, etc. It is kinda creepy....

I (darkly) refer to that stage as Vuelta de Muerte.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Gonzo Cyclist

Posts:568

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01/26/2016 05:02 PM
the Lance days were fun to watch, predictable, sure, but some good ballsy attacks, and the Lemond days were really something, him and Fignon going at it, or Lemond and Hinault going at it
The green and polka dot jersey battles have been waaaaaaay better these past few years, the fight for the yellow has been a bit boring to say the least
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