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Last Post 06/12/2020 06:19 PM by Nicholas Arenella. 31 Replies.
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Orange Crush

Posts:3648

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06/04/2020 09:10 PM
I don’t think you understood what I said. Suggest reading a digest of the Kerner Commission report to understand the root causes and solutions. “American Apartheid - the making of the underclass” is another authoritative work that gets to heart of it. The issues with policing are one of the most evil consequences but not the root cause. The rotten tooth needs to be pulled at its root (segregation) for there to be a solution.
longslowdistance

Posts:2464

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06/05/2020 07:58 AM
A bit of good news here in Richmond VA: the iconic confederate glorification statues on Monument Avenue are coming down. The 2015 Worlds course featured this road. It was inevitable, but did not expect it to happen in my lifetime. To some degree this is a consequence of Trump being such a disruptor, nice to see something good come out of it.
Dale

Posts:1483

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06/05/2020 10:22 AM
Isn't now about the time for the US government to load tRump on an Air Force jet to spirit him away to a haven someplace like we did with Baby Doc and the Shah? Yeah, I know they left their countries in a smoldering ruin for others to clean up but I'm willing to grab a broom and do my part.

Just. Go.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3633

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06/05/2020 12:26 PM
A bit of good news here in Richmond VA: the iconic confederate glorification statues on Monument Avenue are coming down. The 2015 Worlds course featured this road. It was inevitable, but did not expect it to happen in my lifetime. To some degree this is a consequence of Trump being such a disruptor, nice to see something good come out of it.


That is indeed great news....I remember the first time I "rode" down the road on Zwift and could see statues in the looming distance and thought "please tell me they did not put that racist crap in the actual game...."

Luckily Zwift was smart enbough to change them to cyclist statues int eh game.....
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:2776

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06/05/2020 12:40 PM
OC, I understand. But the "institution" goes far deeper than anything on paper. It goes to the roots of this country. Those who came to this land from England came for several reasons. Some, to escape religious persecution (pilgrims, quakers), many for opportunity to make money and a better living; building the wealth of Boston, New York, etc. (often third and fourth sons of the English wealthy who were not in line for inheritance). There was an important subset of those third and fourth sons, those that saw they could live the life of wealth by following a simple formula. Go to America, acquire fertile land in the southern states, buy slaves (many of the first were Native Americans but for the most part those didn't pan out well) and through hard work and good management, come to a place where they could retire to a life of luxury, surrounded by servants and enjoying the good tings in life like proper English wealth would.

This lead to a land of three classes. The wealthy; many of them slave owners, the slaves (who were fundamentally and financially important to their owners while being just property and tools) and the working class whites, thought of by the wealthy as far less valuable than the slaves they paid real money for. The bitterest hatred was from the working class to the slaves who, while being slaves, had value and would be fed and cared for (to varying degrees) though thick and thin because they had value.

While all this was happening, our country formed, the Constitution was written and the first 12 Amendment adopted. At every point, the institution of slavery was protected and the power of the southern wealthy insured even though they were a minority. This protection has lead to several presidents who did not acquire the popular vote. When the Civil War ended, as I noted earlier, the Amendment to end slavery was adopted except it didn't end slavery- by design.

Yes, all this has been institutionalized. But the institutions aren't the core of the problem. It is the mindset behind them and the core beliefs about what America is. Changing that is far more difficult.

OC, for an excellent read - get a hold of "Slaves in the Family". A story about a South Carolina family and plantations written by on of the descendants. It's quite an eye-opener. (And there is real hope, but the start comes when we start talking plainly about what happened and what still is.)

Ben
bluezurich

Posts:17

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06/06/2020 12:19 PM
I'm here, riding more than I have in the last 4 years, I'm 55 for the time being since we're all stating tree rings. Enjoying the abatement of many ailments and issues which kept my mileage low in the past years and loving the cycling high once again, be it building a bike, riding, following sport ( although it is an asterisk year) and all the peripheral bicycle related things in life. I'm happy and fortunate to live in an area which never had riding restrictions as I cannot fathom riding indoors longer than our already semi-long winters here in Utah. Oh and I've lost 20 pounds, good thing it's not from Covid and comes with silly tan lines, eh? One of my favorite cycling things lately has been seeing Garret and Jos' pics from their gravel rides in the Pacific Northwest, gorgeous, not too mention Olmo's serene bike leans. Love this group.
Orange Crush

Posts:3648

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06/06/2020 02:40 PM
Blue - wait, where is Olmo?

He used to be on FB but I haven’t seen anything from him in like forever.
bluezurich

Posts:17

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06/07/2020 08:32 AM
IG, olmofin
Berzin

Posts:72

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06/08/2020 09:54 AM
There is only one thing going forward that will have some sort of positive effect-the dismantling of the for-profit institutions that rely on the free labor provided by African Americans. This includes NCAA Div. 1 revenue-producing sports (the two main ones being football and basketball), where generational wealth is created for others on the backs of black athletes. It includes the for-profit prison system, where Fortune 500 companies gorge themselves on labor that is mandatory for the prisoners and where the payment for said labor is modeled after the German concentration camp system. What also needs to go is the salary cap for professional sports, which protects the profit margins of poorly run franchises (ironically one being Michael Jordan's Bobcats) while salaries are suppressed for the players. The capitalist tenets of fair market value are strangled under this system and makes losers into winners with the revenue-sharing aspects of these collective bargaining agreements.
79pmooney

Posts:2776

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06/08/2020 12:46 PM
+1 Berzin. The 13th Amendment combined with the fact that all black men are born guilty of a felony (DWB; just not yet apprehended, charged with a legal substitute and convicted) means that we will have Constitutionally approved slavery for a long time. (The chilling song "Angola Penitentiary" of - as I heard Christian Scott tell it - a man serving life for a murder he did not do and picking cotton in the same plantation as his for-bearers. Angola Prison being located at the site of the mansion of the Angola Plantation.)

I"m not as passionate as you re: pro sports. I don't mind the colleges using blacks but - give them a first class education and show them love and real support going into the world on graduation so they can give back to their (black) communities. Those colleges also should be VERY vocal re: abuses like DWB enforcement. There are probably legal restraints on what a public college can say (sick if true) but private colleges do not have that restriction. (Yes, it will offend alumni and hurt donations. Suck it up and strap on a pair.)

Of course all this means the heart has to count for a little more than the almighty dollar.

Ben
Orange Crush

Posts:3648

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06/08/2020 02:46 PM
There are some big questions for Joe in the current situation.

His record on segregation and for profit prisons isn't exactly stellar. The first indications on criminal justice reform aren't promising: https://filtermag.org/biden-bernie-criminal-justice-disappointing/

At same time there are calls for a black VP pick, which to me is just a secure the vote move but otherwise meaningless window dressing.

What I would like to see him do is: 1) make that black VP happen but don't stop there 2) give VP a clear mandate to address issues and recommendations from Kerner Commission report on segregation, police and criminal justice reform etc., and turn their recommendations into policy.

This would send a clear message to the electorate and would be very hard to oppose by anyone but the most die hard Trump supporters who are a lost cause anyway. Kamala Harris would be a great pick; she has all the right background to make this happen.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3633

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06/08/2020 03:32 PM
Kamala Harris would be a great pick; she has all the right background to make this happen.


Spot on.

But I am willing to bet he either submits to the left-wing of the party and chooses Warren or makes a 'safe" pick and selects Klobuchar.

the good news is that Biden has sky-high approval ratings among black voters....his challenge won't be winning them over, it will only be mobilizing them. If he does that, he is a very solid position come November.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:2464

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06/08/2020 08:05 PM
Given Biden’s age and mental infirmity, the Veep pick is huge.
smokey52

Posts:399

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06/08/2020 09:38 PM
LSD - I recognize Biden's age but not the mental infirmity. He has always been given to verbal gaffs but nothing too serious. Just check The Onion; he has been one of their favorite targets over the years. With his long history of public service, it's easy to find examples of less than perfect performance. His treatment of Anita Hill is one example. However, as VP, he pushed Obama to recognize gay marriage. He was not just a bump on a log.
With respect to his VP selection, I think age is a serious factor. Warren is a robust woman but up there in years too. Plus she is a huge factor in the Senate, which would be even greater if it swings to a Democratic majority. I would be happy with Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3633

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06/09/2020 01:39 PM
Given Biden’s age and mental infirmity,


I don't understand how Trump supporters think this is a winning tactic for them.

(Note - absolutely not saying you are a Trump supporter, LSD!! Just amazing to me that his supporters think they can hurt Biden with these comments, when they apply double to Trump)
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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