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the new hot sauce?
Last Post 07/23/2013 11:36 AM by Justin jmdirt. 11 Replies.
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jrt1045

Posts:361

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07/16/2013 08:38 AM
it contains no peppers velonation.com/News/ID/11395/Doping-AICAR-Telmisartan-and-the-need-for-vigilance.aspx
Orange Crush

Posts:1163

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07/16/2013 12:15 PM
At the cyclingnews forum there's a bunch of blah blah going on about "gas6".

Whatever it is I am sure it is undetectable at present and pretty sure it would have been pioneered for the London Ole Games. Those events always lead to innovation.
jmdirt

Posts:683

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07/16/2013 02:24 PM
A few moons ago over at our old meeting place I posed a question about blood test detection. I understand that when a urine or blood test is done they test for a specific substance. For example, if they are testing for mj and a guy is a coc head, he will come up "clean". So in cycling if they are testing for EPO/CERA and a racer is on NGFS he will come up "clean". My question is, can we do some type of blood panel screen that indicates "this isn't supposed to be in here"? Maybe it doesn't specifically indicate NGFS but it shows that there is something that isn't naturally present in human blood.
Orange Crush

Posts:1163

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07/16/2013 02:28 PM
The short answer is no. You can only find what you are looking for. So first you need to know what you're looking for, then you need to develop a test for it. That's why the testers are always behind. And that is why you'll never have clean sport. It's a cat and mouse game that can't be won the way it is played now.
Oldfart

Posts:461

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07/16/2013 02:44 PM
jmdirt, I think the testing does look for a number of substances. Wouldn't be surprised if they target certain things based on the sport and perhaps on blood passport results. I think with Contador, they saw in his blood passport what looked like a transfusion so they sent his blood to the special lab to look for tiny amounts of a number of things that they suspected him of taking.
jmdirt

Posts:683

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07/16/2013 03:20 PM
oldfart, I'm pretty sure that you are correct, they look for a number of things that they know will make the racers go faster. What I'm wondering, and OC is telling me that it can't happen, is why they can't identify things that shouldn't be there. We know what is supposed to be in blood so if there is something else in there we should be able to test it and identify it. OC, you must be correct because they haven't done what I'm suggesting but I would like to hear from a hemo doc (I'd Google it but there would be so much BS that I would never wade through to a real answer). EDIT: Maybe OC is a hemo doc.
Orange Crush

Posts:1163

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07/16/2013 03:26 PM
I'm a doc but not that kind :-)

But in my line of work we have a similar problem with water quality sampling. You can't find something (contamination in my case) unless you specifically test for it. There's no single test that can tell you "this water is clean". There's an array of tests that look for KNOWN contaminants.
jpouchet

Posts:81

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07/17/2013 12:46 PM
The human body is an amazing chem lab. Depending upon interenal and external stress factors we can self-produce all sorts of neat chemicals along with a myriad of small-chain concoctions with short-term use in faciliating various finctions at the micro level. Knowing what belongs and what doesn't along with the proper ratios is not a science we own today. At lesat not IMHO.
jmdirt

Posts:683

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07/17/2013 03:10 PM
jp, your are correct, but we know what those "neat chemicals along with a myriad of small-chain concoctions with short-term use in facilitating various functions at the micro level" are and NGFS isn't one of them. Also if one of my endocrine functions/secretions is 10X what it should be I'm either manipulating it or I'm sick. The endocrine system is amazing but its not a medical mystery.
jmdirt

Posts:683

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07/18/2013 07:54 PM
Quote: "did you see that Mexican (SIC: I think he meant Colombian) dance up that mountain? He's on the meth, and its not trailer house meth."
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1059

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07/23/2013 10:38 AM
If you don't know how the body synthesizes a particular substance, you don't know what to look for in testing. They knew the benefits and outcome of EPO, but not what the sysnthesized byproducts would look like.

Now, one option is for drug makers to add "markers" into the drugs as they develop them, but that entails additional interaction and efficacy studies and FDA approval. All of which adds time and money, not things that pharma companies are inclined to do just to catch dopers.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
jmdirt

Posts:683

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07/23/2013 11:36 AM
CK, we do know how the body synthesizes/metabolizes most substances. If something is there that shouldn't be, more tests can be done to figure out what/why. Even if its a bi-product of synthesis/metabolism that we don't recognize, that should makes us ask why this athlete has something in their blood that other people don't. Tests may show that this athlete is 1 in 1,000,000,000 that synthesizes/metabolizes water that way but at least we would know.

I tried to look for answers about this but didn't really get any. I'm assuming that since no governing body has tried something like what I'm asking about, it isn't possible.
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