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A Rod fighting for his life?
Last Post 08/20/2013 10:02 AM by j t. 26 Replies.
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Oldfart

Posts:490

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08/06/2013 01:06 PM
If I was Syrian (or in a similar life and death situation)  I would be offended by this wealthy POS. You made the bed Mr Rodriguez, now you have to sleep in those silk sheets.
Yo Mike

Posts:279

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08/06/2013 01:38 PM
Will this keep A-roid out of Cooperstown? I hope so, and I hope the boos keep coming his way.

WTF is he not given a lifetime ban, in consideration of his offenses? Pete Rose was BANNED FOR LIFE for a lot less, IMO.

Of course, some here may feel that if the second string left fielder for the AAA Mudviille team is not persecuted as well, then A-roid shouldn't be, either.
79pmooney

Posts:1192

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08/06/2013 01:56 PM
Yo, I struggle with the comparison to Pete Rose. As I understand it, his gambling at any level that mattered came after his playing days. As a player, he was the best. I never heard cheating and his name ever while he played. To me it's a no-brainer. He should be in the Hall of Fame, no asterisk needed.

A-Rod? I watched him that magic late summer of the mariner's '95 run. Great player. But he never impressed me with how he carried himself. I used to sit over first base and bring binocs and watch them in the clubhouse. Edgar Martinez, Ken Griffey and Jay Buhner were all class acts. It was actually fascinating. The team was roughly evenly divided between Hispanic, black and white players. Each of those three groups looked to the matching one of those three for leadership and inspiration. It was just as obvious that those three had real respect and love for each other.

The players that didn't fit that mold? The pitchers. Pitchers are just different. (I know. I used to play goalie in hockey.) And Alex Rodriguez.

Ben
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1192

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08/06/2013 04:27 PM
Betting on baseball (or any sport) by a team manager is WAY worse than doping. It threatens the very integrity of the game.

A-Rod is just LA with a bat. Unrepentant doping bully who sought to get others to do the same as him and went after anyone who threatened him.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:744

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08/06/2013 04:37 PM
But he never tested positive!
jookey

Posts:141

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08/06/2013 08:38 PM
Witch hunt! Why is he given more time than the others? Sounds like the same thing as ole -7.
jmdirt

Posts:755

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08/07/2013 01:54 AM
"Of course, some here may feel that if the second string left fielder for the AAA Mudviille team is not persecuted as well, then A-roid shouldn't be, either."

Since that may be a poke at me, I'll respond. The most recent thread that I suggested all or none, was about WINNERS names on ASO's list. If LA is removed so should many others. If the others stay then so should LA. My all or none has nothing to do with guys who never even raced in the TdF.
Yo MIke, In the other thread you were including all dopers while the thread was really about LA and JU (both drivers who were speeding and hit pedestrians).
Entheo

Posts:317

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08/07/2013 07:49 AM
baseball... what's that?
Yo Mike

Posts:279

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08/07/2013 08:05 AM
@Ben: the comparison with PR was only in regard to what I think was way to severe a penalty for PR who, IIRC, was betting on other games. i.e, the Reds were not involved in the wagers.

@CK: -7 or A-rod actions directly threaten the integrity of the sport. Rose's infractions were several steps removed. I don't recall how the investigations played out, but I don't think he manipulated the Reds to win / lose bets. Like the rest of the world, PR was a spectator to those contests he bet on.

@JM: WINNERS only? Does the second step (possibly doped) on the podium then move up? Isn't a doped Hincapie (for example) also complicit in -7's fraud wins? Should he and other doped domestiques get a pass since they're not 'winners' per se?

IF...IF there were 2 cop cars to chase in my previous example, yes of course both cars should be caught and prosecuted appropriately.

Look, I am arguing both sides, because I think I do see both sides of the argument and realize

1. it is incredibly complex: verifying testing data, riders 'trusting' doctors, improvements to testing, etc
2. time has passed
3. altho there is a limitless number of asterisks, this needs to be addressed in a realistic fashion, and I think that means that not every doper / winner will receive punishment. Not fair, but not un-realistic.

The winning dopers should be preferentially caught, because their doping matters more. The anti-doping message gets sent and hopefully received by the peloton, and the sport moves forward with state of the art testing and tough sanctions / bans for repeat cheats and prosecution for the doping Drs and DS that enable doping.

Some past 'greats' like Big Mig may continue to 'whistle past the graveyard' without an asterisk, but the real fans know the score. J Anquetil was realistic about doping in his day, and I think we need to be realistic about changing it today, particularly in trying to redress all past incidents.
stronz

Posts:315

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08/07/2013 09:11 AM
Rose bet on baseball while he was managing. Not a spectator. Worse than Arod as the results of a season of 162 games is thrown into question and its implications for other playoff contenders, etc.

IMO Arod will never make Cooperstown -- he is disliked by waaaay too many journalists. Every word out of his mouth is phoney (his claim to be fighting for his life is just another very good example) and he stopped being a good player roughly 3 years ago. While he didnt fail a test, he admitted to using steroids ("the clear") in a mea culpa press conference before the 2009 season. He also attempted to buy all the records from the biogenesis clinic in florida while MLB was investigating. Tampering with MLB's investigation is certainly worth a larger suspension than the other guilty players. If he had any class at all he would recognize that he is done -- his skills are a very pale shadow of what they used to be - and retire with the $400million he has already earned. The big difference between baseball and cycling is the players union in baseball is hugely strong and has negotiated penalties for using steroids that are piddling. Also There are no repercussions for the teams that the guilty player is on unlike cycling where a sponsor will yank the funding if a cyclist is nailed. So players really use it at their own risk and your colleagues dont care if you do it or not. In baseball you can do roids, bulk up, have a banner year and get a 100million dollar contract. Then if you get busted you get a 50 game suspension and loose one third of a year's pay. After that youre back at it collecting a fat paycheck and underperforming relative to your contract year. Thats the players' union doing a kickass job for its players.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1192

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08/07/2013 09:21 AM
+1 Stronz. Excellent post.

The difference between a player doping and a team manager betting on games is MASSIVE. Rose can claim all he wants that he never bet on the Reds, but let's face it....his credibility on this topic kinda blows. Any admissions he has ever made have been have been simply to try and get back into baseball.

That said, I believe he should be in the HoF as a player with a big, fat asterisk next to his name.

A-Rod is never getting in...at least not for 15 years or more. Maybe by a veterans vote at some point. But for now, there are way too many journalists who are "traditionalists" and will never vote for a doper. They will eventually fade away and a younger generation will take over, but that is a long way off.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
jmdirt

Posts:755

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08/07/2013 10:25 AM
"@JM: WINNERS only? Does the second step (possibly doped) on the podium then move up? Isn't a doped Hincapie (for example) also complicit in -7's fraud wins? Should he and other doped domestiques get a pass since they're not 'winners' per se?"

@YoMike: WINNERS on a list, that's what I am talking about...period. JU was talking about WINNERS on a list when he gave his opinion. If they remove all dopers from the list, leave it blank, no doper moves up. I'm not talking about giving anyone 'passes', I'm talking about Winners on a list. You are talking about prosecution, I am (and the other thread was) talking about WINNERS on a list. Somehow WINNERS on a list got morphed into "what about guys on the local club team?" The guy on the local club team isn't on the TdF WINNERS list. The guy in 136 place isn't on the WINNERS list.

The cars have all been pulled over and the drivers cited but only one lost his license.

I'm not defending 7 here either. If JU's name was the only one that got removed I would be saying the same thing. I also realize that ASO can do WFTW since they own the monster.

EDIT: Charlie Hustle should be in the Hall!
laurentja

Posts:122

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08/09/2013 05:12 PM
" to the people who don’t believe in [baseball], the cynics and the sceptics: I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. "

79pmooney

Posts:1192

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08/09/2013 08:27 PM
I heard a funny Tweet to a sportscaster when this all came out.

"A-Rod plays third, bats fourth and pleads the fifth."

(A neat right triangle. I like it.)

Ben
longslowdistance

Posts:744

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08/09/2013 10:08 PM
Interesting observation from a baseball writer: Baseball High Crimes historically were about falsely losing - betting, throwing games, etc. Baseball doesn't have a history of seriously punishing players for trying to win ( corked bats and spitballs being minor offenses), and the culture is still grappling with this.
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