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Really?
Last Post 11/05/2013 09:10 AM by jacques anquetil. 47 Replies.
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jmdirt

Posts:707

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11/01/2013 04:24 PM
My point of reference: I was a mid field national dirt pro from 1995-99 (I kept a pro license until three years ago but I was barely a good local pro from 2001-2010) . In '96 and '97 I did the entire NORBA series, plus two regional series and a few world cups. My point is that I know a lot of people in the dirt world.

When the Canadian dirt racers (RG, RH, SM, CS, JK, KM...) started dominating the NORBA races more than a few eyebrows raised. When RG and RH started standing on the box at every world cup too a lot of speculation was flying.

If RH's dope use was short lived, how did his form stay with the top dopers all this time? Should we believe that he was clean like Jens? I just crapped myself typing that!

I had pretty much accepted that ~90% of pros and 100% of winners doped, then I read TH's book and I was no longer 'pretty much'. To think otherwise is naive/ignorant.
RNDDUDE

Posts:78

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11/01/2013 04:42 PM
ElleSeven brings up a great question when she asks "Is there a correct way to do it?"

To the purists who say "cheating is cheating", it doesn't matter if you do it once, and admit it the next morning, or steadfastly deny until you are caught with the needle in your arm, or anything in between, it's all equally bad.

To the realistic cycling fans, they accept it at face value and say "so what, who of consequence didn't?"

To the fanboys, you support your guy no matter what, facts be damned.

To the pragmatists, you realize that change comes slowly, and judge the sport on where it seems to be going, as opposed to where it's been.

Athletes doing peds is akin to virgins being deflowered, once done you can never go back, and you either keep quiet about it, or confess and face the scorn.

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistant one. -Albert Einstein
Orange Crush

Posts:1204

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11/01/2013 05:08 PM
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 11/01/2013 10:43 AM
But I will give Ryder props for coming forward on his own, as opposed to having been exposed and then "confessin'.


Parisien begs to differ and that is really all that should matter. Unanswerable questions being posed here.
Entheo

Posts:317

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11/01/2013 05:08 PM
R&D, your astute observations indicate that you have far too many functioning brain cells at the end of a week, which raises the question...
jmdirt

Posts:707

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11/01/2013 09:37 PM
RNDDUDE, I am a cheating is cheating guy. It doesn't matter if they do a T patch each day to improve recovery or if they are on a full on EPO/blood doping program, the intent is the same, they want to improve their results by artificial means. Is murder, murder? Does it matter if they use a .22 or a 50 cal. (dead is dead)? Does it matter if they are a serial killer or just kill one person (not to each individual/family). Let me be clear that I don't think that sports are anywhere as important as life (cheating does not equal murder).

The issue here isn't if they cheated, its their story when they do tell one. Most of the racers who have told a story "only did it once", "only did it for a short time", "quit in 2009"... The interesting part about that is that their performances didn't drop off after they were "clean" again. I'd rather they just keep quiet than make something up.

Interesting that Paul W. would have something to say since he and Steve L. created quite a buzz with their "out of this world" transitions from road to dirt.
longslowdistance

Posts:695

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11/01/2013 10:53 PM
jmdirt, I have new-found respect for your point of view - coming from mtb during the 90s. My impression, perhaps incorrect, was that mtb blossomed in the US in what now looks like an age of innocence, followed by the international invasion and domination that likely was epo fueled. I think I get your point of view and your outrage as clean cycling did exist in your career.
jmdirt

Posts:707

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11/02/2013 01:12 AM
LSD, no outrage here. Dirt racing was mostly clean in my 'serious' days. I'm realistic about things. Even if there was some dope sneaking in, it didn't have much if any impact on me personally...my 37th place would be 35th maybe.:-)
Entheo

Posts:317

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11/02/2013 11:02 AM
good interview with vaughters; you be the judge...

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/11/news/his-clean-team-dirtied-vaughters-wouldnt-change-a-thing_306775
jrt1045

Posts:361

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11/04/2013 08:34 AM
JV sounded annoyed that he got caught and is now trying to spin the whole thing away, -7 should be proud

Vaughters may have to apply the Garmin policy of firing prevaricators of the truth and pink slip himself for getting just a little too cute with the "facts" as they were. They only coughed up this info because Chicken, of all people, dimed them out. Vaughters knew forever and played coy with the info.

guess pointy sideburns and dressing like an English fop gets you a pass
Entheo

Posts:317

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11/04/2013 09:35 AM
well it's death by a thousand cuts until a truth & rec commission gets approved...

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/11/news/commentary-truth-commission-could-spare-cycling-from-death-by-a-thousand-cuts_307022
Orange Crush

Posts:1204

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11/04/2013 12:03 PM
T&C, a somewhat crassly borrowed term from a place where it was really needed, and a process that had in fact limited success.

Cookson would do well to instead put moneys/effort towards issues that may lead to renewed bleeding down the road. E.g., I don't expect Leinders to come out of closet about 2010-2012 if such a process were to be put in place. Does anyone?
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1128

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11/04/2013 12:18 PM
Agreed re: the T&C name. They should just declare amnesty for anyone who comes forward, certify all results froom the early 90's to 2010 and label them as the "Blood Boosting Era". (and yes, that would include -7's results).

Anyone who admitted to it and is then caught again is immediately given a lifetime ban. Anyone who does not come forward and is subsequently found to have doped is also given a lifetime ban.

This pertains to team managers and doctors as well.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:695

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11/04/2013 02:47 PM
+1 CK
That makes so much sense it can't happen.
jrt1045

Posts:361

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11/04/2013 04:58 PM
-7 could now be +7(*)
longslowdistance

Posts:695

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11/04/2013 07:23 PM
7**
(double asterisk in this particular case)
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