Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 11/12/2013 06:17 PM |
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I think it is a conspiracy against former Vuelta winners.....
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15805/Still-no-contract-for-2011-Vuelta-a-Espana-winner-Juanjo-Cobo.aspx |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 11/12/2013 07:51 PM |
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So you are assuming that the guys who win/top 10 at Kona are clean?
What data supports: "...anaerobic spikes which would likely cause older athletes issues."
Wouldn't you expect "he didn't beat the previous record for age by just a little (which, BTW, was set decades ago, he smashed it by over 5 years." since the science of training and nutrition has improved?
I'm not even arguing for CH here, I'm questioning the generalizations based on virtually no data. If you measure two cocks that are 12 and 13 inches long can you assume that all men have cocks about a foot long? I feel sorry for those two dudes with the tiny wieners! 
Maybe Cob and CH can grab some E/E guys and get a conti team rolling. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 11/12/2013 09:52 PM |
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1) the compiled history of athletic performance seems supports the first statement. Athletic performance peaks in the late 20's / early 30's and declines from there. And when you look at how those athletes start to decline, it is often due to their ability to produce anaerobic power. Climbers falter in the mountains, sprinters lose their bursts, etc.
2) no, I would have expected someone in the last 80 years to have scraped by by one or two years, maybe......to your point, nutrition, technology, etc have all improved. And with all the doping prior to now (snark), you'd have thought a 36-37 YO would have pulled it off. But out of nowhere, an almost 42 YO shatters the age record. Hmmmm.....
The data is out there for age related decline in performance.
And I am not assuming that the Top 10 in Kina is clean, but if you look at the guys who are winning in their late 30's, they have the palamares that are consistent with those results. Perfect examples are Chris McCormack and Craig Alexander. Their earlier careers were stock full of high-quality wins. McCormack struggled for years with the heat in Kona and Alexander focused primarily on 70.3 races before making the jump to full IM races.
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 11/12/2013 10:29 PM |
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CK, in 1974 Raymond Poulidor finished 2nd to Eddy Merckx at 38 years old. Had Merckx not been there, you would have had a Tour (not just a Vuelta) winner at 38 years old.
Ben |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 11/13/2013 12:32 AM |
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CK, not to beat this dead horse into dust, but the data isn't there for endurance athletes let alone those at the top. There is a little data from research on Nordic skiers in their 30s but who knows about their 'programs'. There is also some limited tracking done on marathon athletes but their down fall is bone issues from the pounding so the data doesn't go out to 40.
Yes, in the general population endocrine function declines in the 30s but why is that? Is it because of lifestyle/environmental factors? The research isn't there so we can only guess. There is on-going research about how excess body fat can effect endocrine function. There is also data indicating that being sedentary can suppress endocrine functions.
So tell me what is happening at the cellular level that causes a decline in anaerobic power. |
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Yo Mike
Posts:338
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| 11/13/2013 10:02 AM |
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Instead of measuring schlongs, maybe take a look at telomeres instead
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0052769 |
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jmdirt
Posts:775
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| 11/13/2013 11:00 AM |
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I was thinking on my very wet moto ride to work that maybe elite endurance athletes could have a greater decline in endocrine function due to stress/overload (if you toss in 'products' it could really affect things). Again, no data to support that but it would be interesting to see some testing.
The big question is why do I even bother to look at the weather forecast?!
yo Mike, there is some interesting research in that area...thanks for the link. |
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Yo Mike
Posts:338
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| 11/15/2013 01:28 PM |
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Story on main page
/Vuelta a España winner the most tested of all American athletes under USADA system/
Now, where have I heard that before? |
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Keith Richards
Posts:781
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| 11/15/2013 01:33 PM |
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| This isn't HIM saying it this time though. |
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| -----
It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong. |
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bobswire
Posts:304
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| 11/15/2013 02:19 PM |
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Good for USADA releasing this information and Velo Nation printing it, helps level the bad press Horners been receiving from no other proof than speculation. USADA in no ones fool and probably released this figuring Horner's been getting a bad rap. What I don't understand is some of the demeaning threads related to Horner, he's been one of the most humble stand pros these last 15 years that has always worked for the team. We've (as in cycling fans) have become very jaded cynics.
“Cynicism is not wisdom. Cynicism masquerades as wisdom, but cynicism is a self-imposed blindness. You put the blinders on yourself to protect yourself from a world that you think might hurt you or disappoint you. Be a fool. Believe things will be good. Better to be hurt.” Stephen Colbert |
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jrt1045
Posts:363
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| 11/15/2013 03:15 PM |
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Bob,
CVV, Julich, Michael Barry, Hincapie, -7, DZ, TD, Ryder, Vaughters and many others never tested positive either. The testing does not work, recieving a subpoena does. The cynicism is well earned at this point |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 11/15/2013 04:25 PM |
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The cynicism then should be directed at the anti-doping movement, not the cyclists, precisely because the testing does not work. We are being sold smoke & mirrors, WADA is an organization with a terribly weak mandate and a budget the size of a well earning soccer player. The powers that be will ensure it continues to be that way because the show must go on; they don't actually want to clean up sport.
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 11/15/2013 10:56 PM |
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Well said OC.
So what we get is a sport at war with itself, tearing itself down.
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Entheo
Posts:317
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| 11/17/2013 08:15 AM |
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| for some of us it's skepticism not cynicism -- big difference. |
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Ride On
Posts:537
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| 12/03/2013 01:00 PM |
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| This just in Chris Horner , Velonews man of the year. |
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