Some vindication for Greg Lemond
Last Post 10/03/2017 09:11 PM by Frederick Jones. 17 Replies.
Author Messages
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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07/30/2017 12:08 PM
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/53-year-old-amateur-rider-caught-using-hidden-motor-at-italian-race/

A heat gun caught the guy in the act and the violation stands out like a sore thumb.  Yes, they were acting on a tip.  And yes, you have to have the gun at the portion of the race where the motor is being used.  But, no, you do not have to know who the guilty party is in advance.  Or need a metallic, magnetic or any other "signature" to find the offender.  Heat guns document only the offense itself; the work done to assist the rider.  You can have your quark powered assist that has no signature or defining materials that can be measured by mankind for the nest millenia and a heat gun will still catch it.

I think this is pretty funny.  An individual race catches rider using technology hailed by the guy who is totally discredited by UCI (and probably still hated).  That device did exactly what Lemond said it could do while UCI was jumping over hoops to come up with a solution that could never be interpreted as giving any kind of nod to the on guy who sees clearly (in doping matters - his personal business seems a little messier)

I"d like to see individuals show up at races with heat guns and record violations on their own, then make them public.  I bet there are still a few motors in the big races, just better hid and probably lower power to not attract attention.  It would be fun to watch UCI squirm/

Ben
Master50

Posts:332

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07/31/2017 08:18 AM
If you think catching an amateur is really a vindication them swell Greg and Kathi now have their evidence that mechanical doping is rampant. Of course now that they let the guy get away with his bike he is denying there was a motor. So typical of cheaters.
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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07/31/2017 11:23 AM
What Master50 said. Hardly vindication. At best it shows you need a range of tools.
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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07/31/2017 02:21 PM
The took needed here was the authority to hold the bike and search it. This wasn't a failure of the heat gun.

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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09/03/2017 08:39 AM
Posted By 79 pmooney on 07/30/2017 12:08 PM
I"d like to see individuals show up at races with heat guns and record violations on their own, then make them public.  I bet there are still a few motors in the big races, just better hid and probably lower power to not attract attention.  It would be fun to watch UCI squirm/

Ben

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doubts-raised-over-effectiveness-of-uci-tests-for-mechanical-doping/

I'll  just stick with my first post.  (Apparently the UCI tablets cannot find an electric motor that doesn't use magnets.  Who'd a thunk it?)

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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09/04/2017 10:55 AM
Velonews has a photo of a UCI commissioner scanning a bike. http://www.velonews.com/2017/09/news/report-ucis-test-hidden-motors-ineffective_447310

I see a problem right there. At every big race there are 500-1000 bikes to scan. UCI is having the bikes scanned by an overweight, middle aged man with other responsibilities. If they want to find motors, they need to hire a young techie and make it clear he is being paid to find them; that he must chase down the false positives and must bug the team mechanics for disassemblies.

The cynic in me sees this as another move by UCI to look like they are addressing the problem using an approach that will not upset the apple cart by actually finding anything.

I would love to see someone come up with damning heat gun evidence, E-mail that or a tip on the bike to be checked to UCI's new E-mail address just for such tips and blind cc the rest of the cycling world and see what UCI does.

Ben
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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09/04/2017 11:03 AM
The heat gun has as many problems although different ones than the ICU scanner. Xray works better technically but cannot be used practically.

Good old tips and detective work...
Habanero

Posts:107

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09/06/2017 07:26 AM
The UCI somehow f's up every time with things like this or doping. Their motto seems to be to look like they are doing meaningful oversight when in reality they are sitting on their hands.
Dale

Posts:925

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09/06/2017 07:31 AM
Need to test like they did back in the Salem witch trials--- or was it Monte Python?
Anyway, cut the bike in pieces, if you don't find a moto, you're good to go.
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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10/02/2017 02:11 PM
More low hanging fruit.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-veteran-rider-reportedly-caught-using-mechanical-doping/

To me, the significant point is that the riders caught are always amateurs or low level, not World Tour riders or even Continental riders and their motors are always simple and right where you would expect them. (And caught by non-UCI offcials; a very important point if you ask me.)

UCI has so far caught nobody. We can believe that is because the peloton is so scared of getting caught that no one is willing to try to cheat and won't even go near the far more sophisticated systems reportedly out there. (As a parallel - nobody, but nobody messes with blood boosters since the bio-passport was put into effect. Same reasoning - no fool would risk sure suspension for dabbling in those waters. Funny, as I write this, all the clouds are turning pink.)

One aspect I find comical is UCI so adamant about keeping the law enforcement out of this, just like they have (not always successfully) kept them out of the doping scene. I posted before that I want to see enforcement done by those with a zeal to catch offenders. I suggested using geeks and encouraging them to rise to the challenge of finding the work of the bad geeks. The police have other avenues that can be pursued that UCI/WADA cannot use. Wiretaps. Jail time. Subpoenas.

To me the photo that sums up the current state perfectly is the shot of the middle-aged paper shuffler bending over to scan a bike with a "box" that hasn't caught anything so far.

Dale - this bike was caught when the WB cage was removed and wires seen. I wonder how many seatposts have been pulled by UCI officials.  Edit: aren't there tiny cameras or lenses that can be snaked through WB bolt holes to do DT inspections or valve holes to do rim inspections?

Ben
Dale

Posts:925

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10/02/2017 08:56 PM
The UCI has largely proving itself inept. At the pinnacle of mechanical cheating my guess is they have moved way beyond electric motors in the BB.

Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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10/03/2017 08:41 AM
Unless they get a specific clue like in this case police generally have better stuff to do then go after cycling heats .
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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10/03/2017 09:52 AM
O.C., yes, but UCI has acted as an obstacle to police work many times in the past, saying to the effect of "we've got this under control". Of course, UCI doesn't want a Festina disaster. But Festina was happening under their noses. Then we had a decade of UCI being proactive with USPS/Discovert/LA. (Yeah right.) And now we have a motor free peloton. Proof? Just look at the amount of positives that are occurring.

The police aren't going to clean up cycling and that isn't their job. But I will be smiling if they do a big bust in the World Tour ranks.

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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10/03/2017 10:02 AM
Words from the FDJ manager

“I’m not overly worried about it," he said. "In the pros, we must have the means to carry out proper inspections. David Lappartient is on the case. This must not just be an electoral promise. It’s relatively easy to regulate, but it seems essential to me to train commissaires for these inspections. It must become a true occupation.”

Yeah! (But really, UCI wants a techie/geek, not a "Commissaire" although bestowing said geek with the title would be OK.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/madiot-lappartient-must-follow-through-on-mechanical-doping-promises/

Ben
Habanero

Posts:107

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10/03/2017 10:04 AM
The UCI is so damn incapable of doing anything right.
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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10/03/2017 10:31 AM
Ben - the particular incident you are referring to, the shady Hungarian dude showing up with police, it was determined that UCI was correct to keep them out. There was commentary along those lines in cyclingnews around the time. It's like Floyd Landis showing up with a police escort at a bike race. Look, people lose perspective here in that UCI is dirt poor and has limited resources to do just about anything. Police are better off going after real crime as daily events keep showing us.
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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10/03/2017 01:49 PM
BTW Madiot's comment is brilliant:

"“It’s pathetic. In my opinion, what he’s doing is not profitable. All that to win two sausages and three packets of crisps…I don’t see the point,”

That goes to the offender but also speaks of the effort put in to catch him...how many $ expended for a 500 Euro cheat?

Also worth noting the comment posted on the article:

"I know someone that not only teaches the officials (Commissaires) how to use the UCI tablet device, but also is contracted to go to many of the top events to do the actual testing too. He is convinced the pro's are not using motors, and also convinced the tablet is far more effective than the TV programs gave credit for."

There's a lot of innuendo going on supplied by our Hungarian engineer friend who is trying to eat of both walls. First he supplies the motors, then he gets paid to do the TV shows and "exposures". Makes me skeptical as to his credibility to say the least.
longslowdistance

Posts:1474

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10/03/2017 09:11 PM
My response to the quoted cycling bureaucrat's comments above:

What you don't about people and what motivates them is a lot.


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