Where there is smoke.....
Last Post 06/26/2013 08:06 PM by bob etzler. 24 Replies.
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bobswire

Posts:290

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06/25/2013 08:51 AM
First we hear about Jalabert then this story concerning Froome must mean the TdF will soon be in action.

Froome no longer on list of Bike Pure supporters:


Layhe states that efforts to receive data from the biggest of the Tour de France favourites, Chris Froome, have been unsuccessful. The Briton was runner-up in last year’s race and has had an outstanding season thus far, winning the Tour of Oman, the Critérium International, the Tour de Romandie and the Critérium du Dauphiné.

He is for many people the strongest contender for the Tour de France.

According to Layhe, Froome joined Bike Pure several years ago when he was part of the Barloworld setup. The organisation is voluntarily, but those who have been featured as members have benefited from a boost to their credibility as they aligned with an anti-doping organisation.

However Layhe has said that repeated efforts to contact Froome over an eighteen month period have led to no replies, and that he now interprets that as a sign that he no longer wants to be involved.

“We have asked for clarification from Chris on a number of occasions in the last eighteen months via email and direct message on Twitter if he still wished to form part of our organisation. As a result of not receiving such clarification from Chris or Team Sky in recent days we have made the difficult decision to remove his bio page from our website. This in no way insinuates that Froome is a suspicious rider but we feel that if riders do not support our organisation then there is no reason for us to promote them as such.”

He added that requests in recent weeks to Froome to provide his data during or after the Tour were not responded to by the rider, and that Team Sky had itself had said that he would not be making any of that information public.

“For those who ask 'Why should riders release their data?', our reply would simply be 'Why wouldn't you?’ he states. “World opinion is that pro cycling is tainted and as such, many cycling fans have become non believers. Bike Pure are campaigning for more transparency and emphasis on the publication of data which over time, will help bring the non believers back to the sport.”

VeloNation has sought comment from Team Sky but has not yet received a statement on the matter. It has insisted to Bike Pure that it is a clean team, but said that any release of data needs to be a sport-wide initiative by teams and riders.
pikeHillRoad

Posts:95

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06/25/2013 09:48 AM
i want to like froome, but i still cannot believe him. Before the 2011 vuelta, he was no big time climber. and then he was suddenly the best in the world at going uphill. can't quite buy it...

i know someone will paste in his palmares, and that is a valid point, but i just see a lack of progression followed by a huge jump.
bobswire

Posts:290

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06/25/2013 10:00 AM
I kinda blame the doping cops for killing our fantasies, the biking authorities for not only looking the other way but encouraged the behavior by putting dopers on a pedestal,the sponsors for paying huge dividends to most successful racers now abandoning the sport acting as though they were clueless, fans for wanting their cake and eat it too now whining over a stomach ache blaming the cake.

Just enjoy and take it for what it is, entertainment, take your own riding seriously.
jmdirt

Posts:683

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06/25/2013 10:04 AM
phr, the other argument: if he was cleaner five years ago.... Now if the platoon is cleaner....

I'm not claiming either, nor defending Froome, just sayin'.
Yo Mike

Posts:259

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06/25/2013 10:12 AM
+1 jmdirt context matters

@ Bob: it was a vast conspiracy. There was money to be made, so it was.

pikeHillRoad

Posts:95

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06/25/2013 11:00 AM
@jm - I get that context matters. Something still missing for me.

@Bob@mike - yep, dollars and entertainment.
stronz

Posts:305

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06/25/2013 11:34 AM
my take is that SKY probably doesnt want him participating. When he was anonymous it gave him cred. Now that he is the big sheeeet (somehow without actually having won a GT yet) he doesnt need Bike Pure -- they need him. Course I could be a complete wanker.
bobswire

Posts:290

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06/25/2013 01:44 PM
Posted By stronzo nonfumare on 06/25/2013 11:34 AM
my take is that SKY probably doesnt want him participating. When he was anonymous it gave him cred. Now that he is the big sheeeet (somehow without actually having won a GT yet) he doesnt need Bike Pure -- they need him. Course I could be a complete wanker.
Nah, he just lawyer'd up.

laurentja

Posts:122

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06/25/2013 02:19 PM
Tell you what, I don't say much about Wiggo either as there seems to be a lot of people here who like the guy. But I don't believe in him or Froome, really. On particularly skeptical days, I thnk perhaps Wiggo fears that whatever new not-yet-illegal PED he was using may now be tested for, and since he is close to retirement, why risk losing his TDF title by going for another one.
Keith Richards

Posts:727

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06/25/2013 02:21 PM
I don't know how upset I would be about this.

I am a big car racing fan. I don't know of a single F1 team that would give the equivalent information away for competitors to analyze.
----- It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
jrt1045

Posts:361

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06/25/2013 02:56 PM
Tenerife = suspect
jmdirt

Posts:683

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06/25/2013 04:31 PM
Keith,

I'm not a huge fan of auto racing but I am a moto fan (motocross, supercross, and moto GP). They are required to use the approved fuel. If they use something else or add something, it costs them.

F1 teams DO share the equivalent info.: "To make sure that the teams and fuel suppliers are not violating the fuel regulations, the FIA requires Elf, Shell, Mobil, Petronas and the other fuel teams to submit a sample of the fuel they are providing for a race. At any time, FIA inspectors can request a sample from the fueling rig to compare the "fingerprint" of what is in the car during the race with what was submitted." FIA is more controlling than the UCI in most cases.
Keith Richards

Posts:727

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06/25/2013 04:44 PM
Posted By jmdirt on 06/25/2013 04:31 PM
Keith,

I'm not a huge fan of auto racing but I am a moto fan (motocross, supercross, and moto GP). They are required to use the approved fuel. If they use something else or add something, it costs them.

F1 teams DO share the equivalent info.: "To make sure that the teams and fuel suppliers are not violating the fuel regulations, the FIA requires Elf, Shell, Mobil, Petronas and the other fuel teams to submit a sample of the fuel they are providing for a race. At any time, FIA inspectors can request a sample from the fueling rig to compare the "fingerprint" of what is in the car during the race with what was submitted." FIA is more controlling than the UCI in most cases.


To me supplying SRM power data, heart rates and VO2 max is the cycling racing equivalent of providing downloads of telemetry from track testing in F1. No F1 team would supply that.
----- It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
79pmooney

Posts:1096

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06/25/2013 04:48 PM
jm, I agree with your last statement, "FIA is more controlling than the UCI in most cases." But, what neither UCI nor FIA request is records indicating horsepower outputs. Can you imagine the protests it FIA required that info?

That said, UCI and the pro ranks are not believed by a huge block of people. Withholding that info does nothing to reduce suspicions. If the pro ranks want to be believed, perhaps the rider's union should propose a (say) 5 year period where all records are shared publicly so that trust may be restored. That would change racing, help some and hurt others. So has every rule change ever instituted.

Ben
Keith Richards

Posts:727

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06/25/2013 05:09 PM
Ben, exactly. If Ferrari found an extra 20hp, they don't want you to know until the flag drops on race day.
----- It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
C2K_Rider

Posts:168

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06/25/2013 08:30 PM
Nver heard of "Bike Pure" before today. So if Joe Blow starts an "anti-doping" organization and asks riders to join to prove they are not doping, and they don't join, that is supposed to imply they are not to be trusted?

A true catch-22 if you ask me.
bobswire

Posts:290

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06/25/2013 10:30 PM
Posted By Joe Rockbottom on 06/25/2013 08:30 PM
Nver heard of "Bike Pure" before today. So if Joe Blow starts an "anti-doping" organization and asks riders to join to prove they are not doping, and they don't join, that is supposed to imply they are not to be trusted?

A true catch-22 if you ask me.

Maybe if you read the article I posted above to start this thread,you would have noticed Froome joined them a few years ago, just because you never heard of them before today means zilch.

Quote: According to Layhe, Froome joined Bike Pure several years ago when he was part of the Barloworld setup. The organisation is voluntarily, but those who have been featured as members have benefited from a boost to their credibility as they aligned with an anti-doping organisation.
jmdirt

Posts:683

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06/26/2013 01:00 AM
Kieth and Ben, Doesn't the F1 "formula" govern HP, RPM, displacement, weight, fuel, aspiration, down force, length, width, etc.? The only way to find another 20 HP would be using EPO...err, I'm mixing the two sports now. Anyway, my point was that F1 doesn't have to report these things because they are covered by the formula. The formula is a secret moving target in cycling. Bike Pure is/was just an attempt to make that moving target visible.

As a side note, I think that I read that F1 is moving to small (1.2 L?) turbo charged V6 engines either next year or 2015.
durielk

Posts:41

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06/26/2013 08:37 AM
F1 does not govern HP or downforce. Most races are determined by driver experience & speed/downforce sweet spot for that track.
C2K_Rider

Posts:168

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06/26/2013 12:55 PM
Posted By bob etzler on 06/25/2013 10:30 PM
Posted By Joe Rockbottom on 06/25/2013 08:30 PM
Nver heard of "Bike Pure" before today. So if Joe Blow starts an "anti-doping" organization and asks riders to join to prove they are not doping, and they don't join, that is supposed to imply they are not to be trusted?

A true catch-22 if you ask me.

Maybe if you read the article I posted above to start this thread,you would have noticed Froome joined them a few years ago, just because you never heard of them before today means zilch.

yeah, I read it. It's apparently been around for a few years, but never heard of it so, since I do read some cycling news, it appears to be a low-level operation. The education component is admirable. Why any racer would participate in their data collection is a mystery. They have no authority whatsoever so their only mode of "enforcement" is to ask racers submit data, and then if they don't, imply there must be some issue they don't want known. Not exactly an organization anyone would want to get involved with considering there are plenty of official organizations already involved that have actual authority. So\, l the question stands: can anyone start an "anti-drug" organization, insist racers join, and if they do not, imply they have something to hide?
Yo Mike

Posts:259

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06/26/2013 01:22 PM
/So\, l the question stands: can anyone start an "anti-drug" organization, insist racers join, and if they do not, imply they have something to hide?/

That seems to be the case here. Great PR value with a gullible audience.

Senator Joe McCarthy would have made a great anti-doping crusader, if he hadn't so busy being a dope himself. See also: 'The Crucible' by Arthur Miller.
bobswire

Posts:290

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06/26/2013 01:49 PM
Posted By Michael Merva on 06/26/2013 01:22 PM
/So\, l the question stands: can anyone start an "anti-drug" organization, insist racers join, and if they do not, imply they have something to hide?/

That seems to be the case here. Great PR value with a gullible audience.

Senator Joe McCarthy would have made a great anti-doping crusader, if he hadn't so busy being a dope himself. See also: 'The Crucible' by Arthur Miller.

Joe McCarthy, why stop there when Hitler is available. Try to have a reasonable conversation and what happens, Velonews'esque post. I give up.
durielk

Posts:41

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06/26/2013 03:16 PM
Team leader going into the TdF, make public your power numbers???? you must be wacky!
Yo Mike

Posts:259

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06/26/2013 03:23 PM
Come on Bob, I'm being both pragmatic and sarcastic here.

I don't want doped athletes, for all kinds of reasons. I can, however, see why Froome or anyone 'coming up' would sign on to a 'Pure Cycling' type organization (team mandate?) and then distance from it as they move up the ranks. The car racing analogy KR and others discussed above appliies. I can also see how some folks, in consideration from the debacle / disaster of the LA years - 7 TdF wins annulled - in case you have forgotten - might use an anti-doping movement for their own 'purposes' as well.

No need to pull the 'Hitler card'. Seriously. Other despots - like Pol Pot and Joe Stalin, Genghis Khan - possibly envy him the attention in the afterworld - if there is one. Joe McC is a poser in comparison, thankfully.
bobswire

Posts:290

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06/26/2013 08:06 PM
Posted By Yo Mike on 06/26/2013 03:23 PM
Come on Bob, I'm being both pragmatic and sarcastic here.

I don't want doped athletes, for all kinds of reasons. I can, however, see why Froome or anyone 'coming up' would sign on to a 'Pure Cycling' type organization (team mandate?) and then distance from it as they move up the ranks. The car racing analogy KR and others discussed above appliies. I can also see how some folks, in consideration from the debacle / disaster of the LA years - 7 TdF wins annulled - in case you have forgotten - might use an anti-doping movement for their own 'purposes' as well

Mike, that was all you needed to say to get your point across, relating McCarthy to Pure Cycling was hyperbole.




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