LA interview at CN
Last Post 11/14/2013 11:51 AM by Keith Jackson. 34 Replies.
Author Messages
stronz

Posts:315

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11/06/2013 01:23 PM
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lance-armstrong-exclusive-interview-part-2
stronz

Posts:315

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11/06/2013 01:32 PM
-- funny how no one has brought this up -- I think we are truly getting to the point where absolutely nobody gives a crap. But I did find some things interesting. Still comes off a bit disingenuous but I think thats the nature of this beast -- he's just a phony. One thing he says -- with ttime people will realize he was just doing what everyone else was doing. Boy thats funny. i'm pretty sure no one else was ruining the careers of his ex team-mates and their spouses, lying under oath to gain million dollar bonuses, starting a foundation based on a big fat enormous lie,....did I leave anything out? Oh yeah when asked if he doped in 2009/10 he tellingly states that he wasnt doping as evidenced by the fact that "he sucked those years" obviously the guy believes he could be a world beater only if he was on the sauce.
ChinookPass

Posts:495

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11/06/2013 01:40 PM
Gotta say the candor is refreshing.

Though you can still see him trying to figure out how he would have done things differently but still in the light of trying to have avoided being caught. There is still a chasm of perspective that he is missing. Those of us over here who were coming of age as fans and as racers during his rise and fall didn't have the facility to see what he saw or what the insider journalists were all in on. He still doesn't quite see the huge story he built and why the guy who stood on the podium with the microphone makes us all cringe.
Orange Crush

Posts:1251

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11/06/2013 01:45 PM
Agreed Chinook - I very much like the candor. There's a lot of truth in that interview.

but cycling tried with some pressure to implement things that were just band-aids over the course of time. Whether it was just the 50 per cent rule, which was what it was – it wasn’t perfect but it was a step. But the sport got no credit for it. That led to more things like the off-score, which led to the biological passport and all the while, no credit. And every other sport that has the doping problem is sitting back and laughing, laughing their asses off, getting no attention, no criticism, no exposure and not doing a fooking thing.

...


LA: Well listen, the biggest difference between cycling, football and tennis is the players’ union, an athletes’ union. We have no voice, no unity. There are guys all over the place. Those sports, major league sports, they’re not letting that happen and the owners wouldn’t allow it to happen. Whereas we’ve just been living in the Wild West. The riders have no rights, ASO continues to make millions, the teams don’t own anything. The only thing a team owns is its current contract, and when that’s up you’re fooking done. You might have a couple of buses and a truck. There’s no equity and value. It’s a fooked up business model.
Entheo

Posts:317

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11/06/2013 03:06 PM
hey phil, paul and bobke... your guy is calling you out:

DB: At the same time, you had a large element in the press corps that didn’t ask you those questions and wrote glowingly of you.

LA: Yep.

DB: They must have known, too, or had their suspicions but didn’t write about it. How did that relationship work?

LA: I don’t know. I think, as you know, the press room at the Tour is a weird place. You have a thousand people there. Okay so you have guys who really know, know cycling left, right and centre, upside down and inside out. They knew. They knew everything, all that $4it, but they were friends with the players. Then you had a new generation of journalists and then you had those who were there just to cover a doping story. They didn’t care about a bike race, they didn’t care about a crash, they just came waiting for a car crash.
Orange Crush

Posts:1251

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11/06/2013 03:55 PM
That's another good section in the interview but the list of journos is a lot longer than the hapless trio.

Cosmic Kid

Posts:1192

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11/06/2013 04:18 PM
I can't believe he is still spinning this "I was just doing what everyone was doing" bullschitt.

No, Lance....you weren't. You were the one suing people, getting them fired and actively trying to ruin people's lives. The fact that he thinks this is still just about doping is absolutely staggering.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
jrt1045

Posts:362

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11/06/2013 04:42 PM
he kinda threw Hampsten under the bus in one question, that was weird

He's become a sideshow, getting up there with Ricco and the Chicken as far as desperation for a story about themselves. It would be pathetic if it wasn't so fitting
vtguy

Posts:250

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11/06/2013 04:50 PM
The guy is a sociopath. I agree with the post, I think it was by stronz, that said that dopping was the least of his offenses.
roadbuzz

Posts:22

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11/06/2013 07:33 PM
The biggest revelation of TH's book to me; just how big an @ss Lance was/is.
stronz

Posts:315

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11/06/2013 08:39 PM
yep he was/is a big bully and bullied the sheet out of TH -- and Tyler was very much the worse for it. Now he's trying to pretend he was just like everyone else. Bullying in professional sports -- an interesting topic. Doping was definitely the least of his offenses.
stronz

Posts:315

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11/07/2013 12:31 PM
part III ==>some good stuff there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lance-armstrong-exclusive-interview-part-3
jmdirt

Posts:755

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11/07/2013 02:37 PM
Cosmic (and others), the doping case IS just about doping (or should be). All of the other stuff is a civil case maybe but should be separate. I won't for one minute say that he wasn't a giant A hole who destroyed other peoples' lives but that is a separate issue. He posed the same Q I posed in May/June. Why should his doping sanction be any different than any of the others? So many people are stuck on him being a "big bully" but that is beside the point. Being a nice guy doesn't make the others any less of a doper/cheater.

Related: I still have trouble with all of the guys who are keeping quiet..."don't say anything and maybe we will sneak by."
Orange Crush

Posts:1251

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11/07/2013 02:54 PM
Posted By Justin jmdirt on 11/07/2013 02:37 PM
Related: I still have trouble with all of the guys who are keeping quiet..."don't say anything and maybe we will sneak by."


They are all eagerly awaiting that TRC so they can sit on Cookson lap and fess up http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-against-a-truth-and-reconciliation-commission
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1192

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11/07/2013 03:31 PM
Posted By Justin jmdirt on 11/07/2013 02:37 PM
Cosmic (and others), the doping case IS just about doping (or should be). All of the other stuff is a civil case maybe but should be separate. I won't for one minute say that he wasn't a giant A hole who destroyed other peoples' lives but that is a separate issue. He posed the same Q I posed in May/June. Why should his doping sanction be any different than any of the others? So many people are stuck on him being a "big bully" but that is beside the point. Being a nice guy doesn't make the others any less of a doper/cheater.

Related: I still have trouble with all of the guys who are keeping quiet..."don't say anything and maybe we will sneak by."


Do you believe his doping transgressions were the same as Hincapie's, VDV's or Zabriskie's? I don't....there is a world of difference between being one of the organizers / ring leaders and simply doping. As it pertains purely to the USADA actions, I agree 100% that his ban should ONLY be about his doping and related infractions. But, in my book, his transgressions in this area rise FAR above those who received "softer" penalties.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
jmdirt

Posts:755

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11/07/2013 03:45 PM
Yes, as far as his actual doping, his 'transgressions' are/were the same as the others.

Three different things:

Doping case.


Ring leader case.


Bullying case.

Maybe these still add up to the same end result (lifetime ban), but to say that his doping was somehow worse because he was a bully, and the ring leader doesn't make sense to me. I'm not even necessarily saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that I don't see it that way.

CERV

Posts:151

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11/07/2013 05:17 PM
IMO

doping case = USADA. He should be getting the exact SAME punishment as every other rider

ring leader case = federal fraud/whistleblower case. If he loses this, he'll be paying ahuge price for being a ringleader. If they don't prove he was a ring leader, every doping cyclist on Postal should be held equally responsible, or it can't be seen as being impartial. As far as the UCI/USADA/WADA etc is concerned, they have no right or reasonable grounds to punish him any more for doping than any other cyclist even if he was a ring leader.

Bullying case = there's no laws against bullying, or against being an A-hole. Could argue he's paying for this in a social sense already with all the hate he is sure to feel being directed at him. His legacy is shot.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1192

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11/07/2013 05:27 PM
Posted By Justin jmdirt on 11/07/2013 03:45 PM
Yes, as far as his actual doping, his 'transgressions' are/were the same as the others.

Three different things:

Doping case.


Ring leader case.


Bullying case.

Maybe these still add up to the same end result (lifetime ban), but to say that his doping was somehow worse because he was a bully, and the ring leader doesn't make sense to me. I'm not even necessarily saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that I don't see it that way.



I agree re: the bullying aspects....that just makes him an arsehole. But as for the ringleader, that, IMO, is germane to his doping activities. He was not just a participant, he was actively trying to force others to dope, as well as distribute and traffic the stuff. That makes a MASSIVE difference in his punishment....and completely within the bounds of USADA to enforce. I don't see how USADA has any oversight on him being a bully, except possibly as it pertains to him attempting to obstruct their investigations. I will concede however that Hincapie getting 6 mos. is kinda BS, since there are a number of reports that he acted as a bit of an "enforcer" for LA.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:1251

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11/07/2013 05:58 PM
The ringleader aspect is going to get more attention with WADA.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/learning-lance-wada-adopt-code-183110216--oly.html

Good in theory - but don't expect anything in reality

''We've got a budget of not even the salary that Wayne Rooney earns at Manchester United,'' WADA director general David Howman told The Associated Press.

That's how important the doping fight is to the powers that be...talk about an uneven playing field. LOL!
BikeCzar

Posts:53

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11/08/2013 11:52 AM
Good interview. He seems honest and contrite. Good on him for accepting responsibility and moving the topic forward. I agree with him that his biggest offense was the misrepresentation to the cancer community which I believe he really does care greatly about and did a lot of good for.

Someday, he'll be forgiven.
jrt1045

Posts:362

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11/08/2013 12:03 PM
Accepting responsibility is a relative term, I would consider his interview rife with rationalizations too. Pretty brave interviewing like that with Daniel Benson but I still see him trying to control the narrative as it were. It is a start as he may have the beginnings of a conscience, hard to tell

Dude is bound for a long and lonely second half of his life as an asterick. I hope the woulda', shoulda', coulda' theme keeps him up at night - he deserves it for what he put people like Emma O'Reilly thru
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1192

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11/08/2013 12:08 PM
Agreed w/ jrt - claiming that he is "honest" in that interview while still claiminig he was clean in 09/10 is laughable.

But he did say something which I agree with 100% - "No comeback, no problem." I said it then - his comeback would only give his enemies more ammunition / time to out him. It was (obviously) a MASSIVE mistake.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
jmdirt

Posts:755

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11/08/2013 12:27 PM
I wonder if his "honesty" is tempered with "I still have several legal battles and issues so I need to be measured with my honesty".

I've never questioned his commitment to the cancer community. If he built LAF/Livestrong purely as a shield he would not have put in the effort he did. Plus, I will never forget how much the foundation did for my mom and dad when he was dying of cancer (more credit to the foundation than LA himself but still...).
Yo Mike

Posts:279

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11/08/2013 12:33 PM
+1 jrt

-7 will only be as 'contrite' as he has to be to get whatever he wants / thinks he can still salvage from a career characterized by deception and ruthlessness
Entheo

Posts:317

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11/08/2013 01:18 PM
LA still clings to pushing the narrative that the Postal program wasn't that big of a deal, very conservative, not a grand conspiracy, yet WSJ journalists albergotti and o'connell and their esteemed publisher penguin group (> 1 billion sterling in revenue a year) chose to back up USADA's claim with their book subtitle "greatest sports conspiracy ever".
jrt1045

Posts:362

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11/08/2013 02:54 PM
guess the legal team of -7 is still wringing some billable hours out of this mess
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-attorneys-revive-accusations-against-novitzky

his team of lawyers made him rich and now they take it away
longslowdistance

Posts:745

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11/09/2013 11:23 PM
Part 4 of the CN interview is online, more truths and likely half truths, but certainly worth your time to read.
Maybe the topic upon which he's most honest is his acceptance that he's far from hitting bottom.
I appreciated the LAF part; jrt may also. Regardless of Armstrong's sins and flaws, the Foundation has done much real good. That will never change. Stones on his grave for that. I hope his desire to return to this cause is for honorable reasons, but it's reasonable to doubt his motives even there.

PS: If you just can't get enough (Actually this is some of the best no BS stuff I've ever seen on this whole affair - definitely worth your time to read):
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/11/09/the-armstrong-lie-alex-gibney-s-portrait-of-lance-as-a-liar.html

Some excerpts from the excellent Daily Beast piece:

How much do you think this scandal is about doping, and how much is about this one guy and how he acted for those seven years he was winning?

I think it’s more about the latter. It’s become a doping scandal: "Oh my god, Lance Armstrong doped." But honestly, come on. That’s a little bit like the Claude Rains moment in Casablanca.

What do you think is next for Lance Armstrong?

I think he has to find, in some way, to come to grips with what he's done. And not so much what he's done on the bike. There can be endless discussions about that, and I think there should be. I think erasing his name is just bad history, and I think it lets cycling off the hook. An asterisk or a line through his name would be better. He has to reckon with the reason why people are so furious at him. And that’s going to take some introspection, that so far, he's been unwilling to undergo.


Do you feel sorry for Armstrong?

No. I don't feel sorry for him. Lance Armstrong made a lot of money, and in a way, rough justice was done. He went after a lot of people that tried to tell the truth and told way too big a lie that encompassed millions of people around the world. So, no, I don't feel sorry for him. But I think everyone needs to keep the story in perspective. The danger is that Lance Armstrong becomes an easy scapegoat, and people don't learn the other lesson from this story—how money corrupts sports, how institutionally things can go awry, how we can all get fooled because of the power of sponsors and media to sell us things that may not be true, but may be profitable. There are a lot of lessons here that we don't learn that we pile on Lance Armstrong.


Yo Mike

Posts:279

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11/10/2013 10:26 AM
/How much do you think this scandal is about doping, and how much is about this one guy and how he acted for those seven years he was winning?/

The 2 are inseparable, IMO. And I do not for one moment buy the 'Claude Rains' excuse - feigned, hypocritical shock about the 'revelation' of -7's doping. What is truly shocking is how effective his bullying was, how he co-opted the system, stole hope, beggared belief and silenced integrity. The chase-down of Simeoni was a prime example. The relative silence of the press in non-response to this shameful act was sickening.

Yes, there is plenty of need for self-reflection for all. Let's hope it happens.
CERV

Posts:151

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11/13/2013 12:08 PM
I wonder if WADA and USADA could actually produce a list of doping infractions that Armstrong violated, and the corresponding sentences each of those violations carries? Don't they have a list of rules somewhere and the standard penalties breaking each of those rules?

It really does seem like they make a lot of this stuff as they go along. It seems like, in the absence of any other agencies that could go after armstrong for his 'ringleader' stuff, they have taken it upon themselves to be the ones who make sure that Armstrong gets more of a dose of 'justice'. Sentences get doled out based on individual investigators whims.
It doesn't seem like it should be their place or their mandate as an anti-doping agency to do any more than investigate individual athletes' doping. In a system that is put in place to police something like this, the agency that does the investigating should not be the one that also does the sentencing.

I think armstong should be punished more than other riders on his team if he was facilitating and providing the drugs. I just don't think this should be in the realm of USADA/WADA. This gets into more of a sports ethics/ fraud type agency. Legislation in the sports goverining body that facilitates investigating and suspending managers/ owners, etc who facilitated/provided/encouraged drug use is more what this should fall under in my mind.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1192

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11/13/2013 12:41 PM
But the sports governing bodies have ceded control of that aspect to the WADA and its assorted national bodies (USADA).

Almost every major international governing body has signed onto the WADA code...no matter what the sport. So by default, WADA has control over those areas (as it pertains to doping).
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
ElleSeven

Posts:48

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11/13/2013 04:37 PM
I really don’t care about his own doping any more. Whether it was more or bigger doping than anyone else's, which is probably the case compared to some and probably not the case compared to others, is perhaps worth wondering about, because this casts a shadow over results in those years. And his effing framed jerseys — he can have those too. He needs them. The sadness of that need is almost inarticulable.

What I do care about, still, is that he was a terrible coward at exactly the moment when he was in a position to do something wonderful for the sport. You get the feeling that what the sport had turned into all by itself, without his agency, remained that way, and was perpetuated, precisely because of him. He isn’t simply (or merely) complicit. He drove it; he gave it momentum and enforced its immoral policy. Time and time again he was the figure who made it known to the peloton that no other way would be possible. People like Bassons and Simeoni, Obree, Gilles Delion, and a handful of other outspoken — and rather brave — guys were a potential voice of change. And you can make an argument, a real, rational argument, that Armstrong was more personally instrumental than any other single individual in stopping that “voice” from being heard and from drawing to it the numbers, the tipping point, that could have effected big changes much, much sooner.

As soon as Armstrong says — out loud and without all kinds of legal tiptoeing that’s about hanging on to his assets — “I was the one who was uniquely in a position to save this sport and did not do that, because I was more interested in being a selfish greedy celebrity,” then fine, step right up and be part of the dialogue.
ChinookPass

Posts:495

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11/13/2013 05:05 PM
well put though likely, no doping = no jerseys, no Philly Million = no on cares about him = no impact on the sport.

If you really wanted to see that guy get a taste of his medicine I would convince Jan Ulrich to race at Kona.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1192

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11/13/2013 05:45 PM
If you really wanted to see that guy get a taste of his medicine I would convince Jan Ulrich to race at Kona.


LOL...that would be EPIC!!!
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
RNDDUDE

Posts:78

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11/14/2013 10:40 AM
ElleSeven....once again, extremely well written. But I seriously doubt that he ever had that moment of revelation that he realized he could hugely redeemed himself by doing what you said...stepping forward and leveraging his standing to lead the change to a cleaner sport. Probably few people in sports do....
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistant one. -Albert Einstein
Keith Richards

Posts:759

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11/14/2013 11:51 AM
He gets props for the Casablanca reference tho.
----- It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.


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