Master's doping
Last Post 01/06/2014 11:22 AM by Evgeni Berzin. 28 Replies.
Author Messages
79pmooney

Posts:1190

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11/27/2013 12:47 PM
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/11/news/masters-racer-richard-meeker-suspended-2-years-for-doping-violation_310125

"The statement says that Meeker tested numerous supplements he had been taking and kept the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency updated of his progress."

So, two scenarios:  If you take enough supplements, esp ones manufactured at shady labs, you ought to be able to find one that "works".  And you have an alibi.  Or use the straight stuff, just being careful to use one likely found in some shady supplement.  And if you get caught?  Well, the lab fees will add up, but the chances are good that a suitable alibi will be found.

I have trouble being sympathetic.  I raced using no supplements whatever, just what God gave me and real food.  Perhaps that's why I was never going to get beyond being a lowly II, but I suspect the best stuff would have only raised me to a better placing II.

Ben
huckleberry

Posts:240

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11/27/2013 01:08 PM
Does his alibi pass the sniff test?

IMO, not even close.

To anyone with half a brain, Lance was obviously dirty. I imagine those same people think doping in Masters racing is not happening hardly at all, much less at the levels that appear obvious here in California.
Dale

Posts:514

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11/27/2013 01:08 PM
A new rule--> If you hire Howard Jacobs to defend you and you're found guilty--- automatic lifetime ban

The go-to attorney of slime ball dopers

Too bad tainted supplements are such an easy go-to excuse.

http://www.nsfsport.com Interesting organization that certifies supplements as dope-free
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1175

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11/27/2013 06:18 PM
One of the very weird things about ST is some of those guys have a unsettling tendency to go out and cyber-stalk people that they feel are cheaters. They dig up old info, browse race photos, etc. they get a kick out of it and all them "Twitch Hunts."

Anyway, some have been cyber-stalking Meeker, trying to dig up more info. Hit his FB page, his wife's, his team's, etc. somehow they found the report on his appeal. Net-net: the appeals board laughed at his appeal. The samples tested were all found to be negative, but then he "found" some more product that he turned in which was positive. Funny 'dat. Here was the appeal board's response:

“[Meeker] stated… the “loose white powder” at the bottom of the bottle was accumulated by his pouring capsules and debris from other containers to his Race Caps Supreme bottle… The problem is that there was 4.32 grams of such powder in the bottle and not a single empty capsule shell. Respondent testified that he would “pick out” an empty capsule shell occasionally as he might encounter one in pouring out a pill. He had no specific recollection of picking any such shells out of this bottle… A single tablet of Endurolytes is 250mg. Therefore, 4.32 grams of powder would mean that at least 36 empty Endurolyte capsule shells had accompanied the powder in the original container and/or this container at one time. Picking this powder clean of no less than 36 little shells is an activity that would seem to this Panel to have taken some memorable effort.”


I was shocked when I read the VN article, simply because it seemed to lend at least some degree of credibility to Meeker's defense, when the reality is that it was a complete farce.

Guy is a giant asshat. Enjoy your suspension, douchebag.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:1190

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11/27/2013 11:43 PM
"Picking this powder clean of no less than 36 little shells is an activity that would seem to this Panel to have taken some memorable effort.”

Well that really should be 16 or 17 little shells. (250 mg is 1/4 gram. 4.32grams/1/4 gram =17.28 capsules.)

This sounds like an old-school stoner. "Damn, out of pot! Guess I'm going to have to scrap out my pipes and smoke the resin." 3 hours later he has one small sticky pile to show for his efforts.

And we are supposed to believe he is innocent?

Ben
jacques_anquetil

Posts:231

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11/28/2013 08:55 AM
cycling in the south bay does some great analysis of the situation.

http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2013/11/23/doped/

http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2013/11/27/saved-by-a-$4itty-lawyer/
Orange Crush

Posts:1234

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11/28/2013 12:07 PM
Over the weekend I drank two bottles of red and ate some strange pork-like meat prepared a la Espanol.

On Monday I sprinted up Buckingham Heights on my 30lbs commuter like the hill did not exist.

It works.
Gonzo Cyclist

Posts:225

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12/01/2013 12:47 PM
Don't under-estimate the power of the Pig OC! Ha Ha Ha Ha I like doping on Carne Adovada, but I'm not so sure it is performance enhancing!
wanker

Posts:19

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12/03/2013 05:22 PM
As usual, Seth nailed it. I predict there will be more positives from the So Cal Master's scene. Plenty of money and ego.
Berzin

Posts:34

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12/04/2013 05:51 PM
There doesn't have to be tons of money or prestige at stake for people to dope. If any of you know any dopers in the amatuer ranks, it's all about ego and going fast.

Just having cats from the Sunday club run tell you you were flying is enough to get to these rider's heads. The ego is a pathetic little beast.
ccrider

Posts:6

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12/05/2013 12:53 AM
I know Meeker, he's a nice guy and he probably did dope. His defense is very similar to USAC/Amber Nebens defense so don't blame the attorney or Meeker for using it, blame USAC for creating it. To me he's just another cyclist that got caught but lets not mistake his doping from his talent, some people are just gifted. With or without dope Meeks still would have won races, its not like he doesn't ride a $4it ton of miles.

Masters and juniors are at the fringes of sport, it doesn't take much to be better then the field, sometimes its dope and sometimes its just more miles, both have a profound effect on the athlete. Guys like Seth get the $4it kicked out of them weekend after weekend because they don't have the legs, or the years of experience. Nobody likes a doper but lets not kid ourselves, its mostly not the dope why some of these masters consistently win.

I live in LA and their are at least 5 guys in every cat that people know they dope but cyclist in general are passive aggressive and won't call them out. Cyclist need to man up, if you have a problem with a master doping call them out. Its hilarious to read all the thoughts on Meeker, after reading everything its shows how dumb cyclist are, they only think your a doper when you get caught! Wise up, their are dopers on Seths team Spy, Amgen, Monster Media, Velo Pasadena, Surf City, Predator and I'm sure I left out a few.

I know I'm in the minority but I don't care if masters dope, I still place in a race or two every year and when I win its special. I have a problem with USADA or USAC wasting time on the weekend warriors and not spending money testing the pros. Their were more masters tested in the last 4 years then riders at the TOC for the same time period. Maters doping and getting caught has no effect on the sport, what is killing the sport are the doped pros and mismanagement of sport by USAC.
stinkyhelmet

Posts:83

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12/05/2013 11:17 AM
"Masters....are at the fringes of sport, it doesn't take much to be better then the field, sometimes its dope and sometimes its just more miles.....I know I'm in the minority but I don't care if masters dope, I still place in a race or two every year and when I win its special."

+1.

It just makes me train more. My field has a few questionable riders and they are the ones that I visualize beating when I am out training.
79pmooney

Posts:1190

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12/05/2013 01:08 PM
Is USADA tasked with the actual testing of athletes? I thought that was the job of the cycling organization, ie USAC and UCI.

I am under the impression that USAC's mission (stated or otherwise) is to advance US pros while looking "responsible". Catching a US pro would be directly contrary to their mission. Catching masters helps their image. As a case in point, I will suggest that it would be near impossible for Steve Johnson and USAC to not have known of LA's doping years ago, given the extremely close ties between them, Tailwind Sports, Thom Weisel, etc. but since exposing that would be contrary to their mission, mouths stayed shut.

And to add more cynicism: Amgen and the TOC are very closely linked to all of the parties above. Little USAC drug testing at the TOC? Is anyone surprised? And I will speculate that USAC works hard to keep USADA out of the loop, because the USADA man in charge, if tasked with testing and catching dopers, would probably do the testing right, catch some big names and upset more than a few apple carts.

Ben
jacques_anquetil

Posts:231

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12/05/2013 01:46 PM
i dunno ccrider. you may have seen this article already, but a teammate of Meeker's had the following to say of his lack of riding 'a $4it ton of miles':
Meeker’s a smart and savvy crit racer, but he wasn’t known for having an exhausting training regimen. You know that Russian wrestler who carried logs uphill in the deep snow in Siberia? Meeker wasn’t like that. He used to say that the reason he was so fast was unlike other masters he didn’t over train.

http://socalcycling.com/2013/11/26/confessions-meeker-groupie-bought-max-kash-agro/
longslowdistance

Posts:724

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12/30/2013 09:29 PM
The main page has a story about a successful 62 year old roadie getting a two year ban for doping. Not Meeker, someone else. A lot of resources were spent to bag a senior citizen. Would the effort and money have been better utilized elsewhere? Or was it worth it by showing that no one is beyond the reach of USADA? And what does it mean to a 62 year old to get a 2 year ban? Will he spend his best years on the sidelines, and have a hard time getting a contract when the ban is over? Drift into a deep depression like Marco Pantani? Or just not give a fig and move on?
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1175

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12/30/2013 09:35 PM
I don't know about a "lot of resources". Sounds like he got popped at Nationals with in competition testing. You'd like to think that they test at nationals.....

But what a douchenozzle....enjoy your ban, Leduc.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:1190

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12/31/2013 01:19 AM
The article doesn't say how he placed. But it did say he forfeits results and placings from that day, suggesting he podiumed. So you enter a competition that does drug testing on EPO, amphetamines and anabolic steroids, place and get popped? Not much sympathy here.

Edit: not as smart as one LA.  LA would have realized he was going to podium and be tested and dropped out.

Ben

6ix

Posts:133

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12/31/2013 09:34 AM
LeDuc kinda made it obvious. He'd line up at the very back of the field, wait until there are approximately 10 laps to go, then charge to the front and kill everyone. And this was the Cat 1/2 field! Plus, he always rode with his hands on the hoods no matter how fast he was going. Thought that was weird.

Anyhow, I'd like to think that everyone racing against him "knew" what was up but since there wasn't any formal testing, what was the risk?

I quit racing here in the Carolina's about 6 years ago. At the time, this guy and one of my former teammates (Masters 30+ road and TT champion) were hammering the fields. Now both of them have been busted. Just goes to show the level of competition in this region. Wish I could have raced them when they weren't on jet fuel. Would have made things a bit more even.
longslowdistance

Posts:724

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12/31/2013 09:39 AM
Thinking about "riding on the hoods" + an old guy. This may be as low as he could get if he has some hip or neck arthritis. My bars keep getting higher and higher, it's not my fault and it's slowing me down. That's not fair, so I should feel entitled to some compensation, you know, just a little PED help.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1175

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12/31/2013 10:59 AM
Actually, riding on the hoods can be the most aero position....and without sacrificing power (wattage tends to dip in the drops a bit, or HR goes up).

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
The Short White Guy™

Posts:56

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12/31/2013 05:24 PM
No doubt there, 6ix.

I saw his name and chuckled...rode with him on a few training rides several years ago. I just assumed it was all us old guys who were fast and them whipper snappers needed to juice.
79pmooney

Posts:1190

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12/31/2013 09:29 PM
Riding on the hoods.... Some of us old guys were taught to ride in the drops anytime the road was iffy or we might get bumped by another rider. Fewer crashes. Fewer crashes meant less lost riding time and hence, better races.

I ride in the drops a lot. Now, I don't have them as low as I used to but they are further forward and my arm extension and back lean isn't much different. That I can still do it I credit more to never stopping riding and never stopping using the drops. (Look at my photo. That wasn't staged. I didn't even know it was being taken.)

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1190

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12/31/2013 09:40 PM
Master's doping and the new WADA hair test.

And the new hair product/treatment? Balding agents/procedures to achieve a distinguished look. You heard it here first.

Ben
Master50

Posts:246

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01/01/2014 01:42 PM
Doping is what happens at a lot of aging clinics too. T, HGH, and even EPO are being used to improve senior's health.
Returned vigour, strength, muscle tone, bone density, etc. These drugs are also being used to extend the vitality of older people. This creates a paradigm problem. If these were not also competitors their doping might be considered good geriatric medicine.
On a personal note, I would not exclude any of these drugs as I get older for other than race performance but is it cheating if it helps me keep up on a club ride? Doping for seniors is way more complicated than for the Pros. I imagine the seniors problem will be the worst by far as the doping helps cope with all the pitfalls of getting old. And then there are EGOS.
Ride On

Posts:452

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01/02/2014 09:40 AM
Ok I get it cycling is testing your average Joe, not just pros. Yippie good for us.

Are other sports doing the same ? Does the NBA test guys in your average 3 on 3 tournament ? I sure hope not. Does the golf club have the guys pee in a cup after 18 holes. Would your local tennis club even know where to send test to? Name me a sport other than cycling where they test armatures . Testing people at a Grand Fondo ride/race. Come on, that is just silly.

The point is, at an amateur level shouldn't the sport be about just doing it, having fun with it, keep active. Who cares who really wins and looses. It certainly is not a money thing. Sure we want it to be fair, blah, blah blah. Take the time and money being spent on testing amateurs and test the pros or better yet promote the dam sport for a change. Buy some kids bikes and give them away at Christmas. That would be money better spent than testing some 62yr old dude.

All you former low T guys who now need an outlet, come on cycling is a great place to be. Cycling leaders quit trying to chase them away. Welcome them. Cycling is the best outlet for those raging old bulls. Golf ha, Tennis no thanks. Running, not enough contact. Triathlon ? To much work. What do you want them to do with their new T in a bottle, have sex all the time ?

Cycling has pretty women. Cycling has contact. Cycling has guys you can grunt with. Cycling is the perfect sport for all the guys on T boosting prescriptions. I say bring them on board and stop chasing them away. They will help fuel the sport, and they've got $$$$ to spend.

Cosmic Kid

Posts:1175

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01/02/2014 12:13 PM
I really struggle with the idea of testing for Masters (or Age Groupers in triathlon). Look, if some guy has low T (real or just perceived by some hack doc) and he is a MOP guy, I really don't give a rat's patootie if he takes T.

And I guess to some degree, I don't care all that much if some guy wins the local office park crit and is using T, although it would bug me.

But when you get to events like Nationals or triathlons where Kona slots are on the line, then yeah, I care. But even if you are testing there, the reality is that the doping regimen is long done by the competition date, and unless you are a complete bozo, you won't get caught.

I dunno.....it is an "easier" answer for the Pros, but much tougher when it comes to recreational competition. And the reality is that this going to become a HUGE issue in a very short time and USADA and the governing bodies better come up with a plan.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
gobuck

Posts:6

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01/03/2014 02:57 PM
Ledooshe stole a leaders jersey from me a while back. With the help of the entire 40+ field we took the stage race from him.
Once a doper always a doper!
Dale

Posts:514

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01/03/2014 11:18 PM
Told a buddy of mine that if I won the lottery one of the things I'd do is go to Dana Point and Tulsa Tough and fund full drug test for the entire field… Masters, Juniors, Cat 5's, Pros. Every pees in a cup. Then I'd show up at some other race and at the start line announce that there would be full testing again and make a note of who pulls off their number and heads home.
Berzin

Posts:34

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01/06/2014 11:22 AM
I've been yakking about doping in the amateur ranks for years. It may not be rampant, but the tell-tale signs for certain individuals have always been obvious. The responses on the old Velonews forum were always the same.

It was about how guys with disposable incomes could afford better nutrition, training, coaching, and equipment. And oh, they just work harder, so I was bitter that I didn't have the requisite talent and attitude, and that I was jealous about getting smoked by guys who were just better than me.

No one gets that much faster as they get older without PED's. The only people who believe this are the ones who want to shout down the truth.


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