Keith Richards
Posts:781
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| 12/16/2013 10:45 AM |
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Jens Voigt Q&A
Jens's reply when asked if he would be worried if they re-tested a blood sample of his from 1998:
"No I didn’t even know if I was tested then or not. Fuck it was 15 years ago. I don’t know if was tested or not." |
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It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 12/16/2013 11:02 AM |
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| The whole dialog is classic Jens.
He interviews like he rides a bike. |
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Keith Richards
Posts:781
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| 12/16/2013 11:13 AM |
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Dale...I guess. But what he is saying ain't pretty...
CN: Yes. You’re essentially in a position where you’re looking after number one to certain a degree. There’s only a certain shelf life an athlete has in their career and if look at some examples, for example someone like Bassons or Simeoni, they rode in the same era as you. Bassons rode clean and you’ve implied the same but he spoke in a different way.
JV: I guess. You look at those examples and as I said you have to look for your balance. Okay if I say whatever I want without looking at the consequences but I risk being on the outside or I say a milder version of what I think and then I stay inside. Looking out for number one sounds easy and selfish but I have a family and children so I can’t act like a renegade or a rebel all the time. I’m having a life, I have to pay taxes, my insurance, my phone bill, school, the kids. I just can’t do whatever I want. It’s the same with training. There are times when I don’t want to train all week but I have that responsibility for my family. |
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It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong. |
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Yo Mike
Posts:338
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| 12/16/2013 11:27 AM |
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Nice guys don't always finish last, or first, but they often get extra consideration, even when playing dumb
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zootracer
Posts:833
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| 12/16/2013 11:31 AM |
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| Jens is da man... |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 12/16/2013 12:07 PM |
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Well he's right about those 15 year old samples.
Focus on catching the current dopers so that we don't have to go through this $4it again 15 years from now.
And I like how he turns the questioning around. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 12/16/2013 01:09 PM |
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Another Jenism's from the former place we used to get our news
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/12/analysis/velo-awards-most-dramatic-day-of-domestic-racing-jens-voigt-stage-5-amgen-tour-of-california_311252
Why did Voigt make his move so far from the finish?
“Just to cause chaos and mayhem. Isn’t that a good enough reason?” said Voigt. |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 12/16/2013 02:19 PM |
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Dale, that was a great quote! Classic Jens.
I will always have mixed feelings about him. A doper who I am sure got a big life-long boost from his regime. I will be glad when all of that era have retired. At the same time, a rider with an enormous engine he was never afraid to fire up and use and a rider with a huge heart to match. Probably the humblest and nicest of any of the riders who could occasionally matter. And a lovable klutz, both on the bike and with words. It will be sad to see him retire.
Ben |
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Entheo
Posts:317
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| 12/16/2013 04:43 PM |
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benson's line of questioning reminded me of the old back-handed compliment "your friends said you weren't fit to sleep with the pigs, but i stood up for you and said that you were."
when breaks went jens was rarely caught out. he read benson's motives to perfection in that interview as well. |
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Master50
Posts:340
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| 12/22/2013 01:04 PM |
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I like the guy. I will miss him when he does retire. About the possibility of a dark past? well he was a pro out of that time.
In terms of today's context? I expect that if the peloton is real riding on food then he is too. |
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Ron
Posts:34
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| 02/27/2014 05:18 PM |
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It would be very, very interesting to somehow know/test/see how much a rider benefitted long-term from a period of intense, regulated doping.
So many variables, but would be interesting to see if, in fact, donkeys can be made into occasionally winners of suicide breaks. |
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mondonico
Posts:158
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| 02/27/2014 10:34 PM |
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| I love Jens. Named my cat after him. As for doping don't know and at this point don't care. But he did start his career in East Germany back in the day as a youth. Not that they ever doped. |
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stronz
Posts:447
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| 02/28/2014 09:09 AM |
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Love Jens -- and I couldnt care less if he doped. He has to say the right things to keep working. They all do. I have reached the point where I assume the entire sport is dirty. Read the news about Xenon use over at CN? see link below. The truth is that all pro teams are looking for ways to enhance performance without getting caught. The Russians think using Xenon to displace Oxygen and force the body to make more hemoglobin is OK and point out that it is not specifically excluded by the rules. Garmin looked at it (thats right squeaky clean Garmin) and concluded it was the equivalent of doping. Having the same effect as breathing a lower concentration of Oxygen - which is apparently not doping. (Why again?) So for me its time to just assume they all are on rocket fuel and enjoy the "spectacle"(I di not say "sport")
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/xenon-gas-should-be-banned-says-garmin-sharp-doctor |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 02/28/2014 12:22 PM |
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The hell!?!?!
“There was talk of carbon monoxide being a good stimulant for EPO production. We heard that a team in the last year had been experimenting with that, and that’s similar to Xenon in general terms. We thought it was probably a bad idea to try and pursue the idea.”
"Probably a bad idea"
'Ya think?
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/28/2014 04:15 PM |
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Posted By stronzo nonfumare on 02/28/2014 09:09 AM
Love Jens -- and I couldnt care less if he doped. He has to say the right things to keep working. They all do. I have reached the point where I assume the entire sport is dirty. Read the news about Xenon use over at CN? see link below. The truth is that all pro teams are looking for ways to enhance performance without getting caught. The Russians think using Xenon to displace Oxygen and force the body to make more hemoglobin is OK and point out that it is not specifically excluded by the rules. Garmin looked at it (thats right squeaky clean Garmin) and concluded it was the equivalent of doping. Having the same effect as breathing a lower concentration of Oxygen - which is apparently not doping. (Why again?) So for me its time to just assume they all are on rocket fuel and enjoy the "spectacle"(I di not say "sport")
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/xenon-gas-should-be-banned-says-garmin-sharp-doctor
So if it is not banned by WADA, the UCI or the IOC, why shouldn't any team look into it?
There was an interesting discussion a few weeks ago over on ST, asking if doping were legalized (testoterone, EPO, etc), would you use the products?
A bunch of people got all indignant and said "NO!! IT IS STILL DOPING!!!", which just struck me as silly. It is illegal because the governing bodies say it is illegal. There is no inherent moral quality to those actions, other than what we assign it. If they become legal, why WOULDN'T you look into it (especially since you know your competition will be using it)?
Same as AICAR....only ruled illegal before the 2012 season (or maybe 2011)....prior to that, it was not specifically banned, so if anyone used it, they were not cheating or doing anything wrong.
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 02/28/2014 04:39 PM |
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This takes me back to the medals we won at the '84 Olympics in LA using blood doping. Took me a couple of years to hear of it, but it sat dead wrong with me and still does. I will always consider those medals "dirty".
Ben |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/28/2014 04:52 PM |
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Why? The practice was not banned, and they were not taking any drugs. They were just putting "themselves" back into themselves. No foreign substances, etc.
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 02/28/2014 05:35 PM |
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Posted By Cosmic Kid on 02/28/2014 04:15 PM
There was an interesting discussion a few weeks ago over on ST, asking if doping were legalized (testoterone, EPO, etc), would you use the products?
….
If they become legal, why WOULDN'T you look into it (especially since you know your competition will be using it)?
Why? Because I don't want my nads to shrink down to the size of raisins, for openers. |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 02/28/2014 10:41 PM |
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OK, I'll give you that one....and of course for you, me and 6ix, testosterone is a really bad idea since it can increase the chance if blood clots. (same with EPO, I believe).
But that is different than a sense that it would then violate some sense of ethics. |
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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stronz
Posts:447
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| 02/28/2014 11:52 PM |
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| why not dope? cause thats not why I ride the freakin bike, thats why! If my livelihood depended on winning races and it was legal OK i'd consider it. But thank G-d i dont ride a bike for a living - I do it cause its fun and being faster than other people really isnt part of it. |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 03/01/2014 02:24 AM |
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Didn't know that about T, but took it for granted that blood boosters would be contra indicated
Eating spinach is about as risky as I go, other than riding a bike I mean |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 03/01/2014 07:02 AM |
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| CK's point is still valid. Otherwise, you have to accept that Caffeine is doping. |
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Patched Tube
Posts:29
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| 03/11/2014 04:20 PM |
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Posted By Cosmic Kid on 02/28/2014 04:15 PM
Posted By stronzo nonfumare on 02/28/2014 09:09 AM
Love Jens -- and I couldnt care less if he doped. He has to say the right things to keep working. They all do. I have reached the point where I assume the entire sport is dirty. Read the news about Xenon use over at CN? see link below. The truth is that all pro teams are looking for ways to enhance performance without getting caught. The Russians think using Xenon to displace Oxygen and force the body to make more hemoglobin is OK and point out that it is not specifically excluded by the rules. Garmin looked at it (thats right squeaky clean Garmin) and concluded it was the equivalent of doping. Having the same effect as breathing a lower concentration of Oxygen - which is apparently not doping. (Why again?) So for me its time to just assume they all are on rocket fuel and enjoy the "spectacle"(I di not say "sport")
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/xenon-gas-should-be-banned-says-garmin-sharp-doctor
So if it is not banned by WADA, the UCI or the IOC, why shouldn't any team look into it?
There was an interesting discussion a few weeks ago over on ST, asking if doping were legalized (testoterone, EPO, etc), would you use the products?
A bunch of people got all indignant and said "NO!! IT IS STILL DOPING!!!", which just struck me as silly. It is illegal because the governing bodies say it is illegal. There is no inherent moral quality to those actions, other than what we assign it. If they become legal, why WOULDN'T you look into it (especially since you know your competition will be using it)?
Same as AICAR....only ruled illegal before the 2012 season (or maybe 2011)....prior to that, it was not specifically banned, so if anyone used it, they were not cheating or doing anything wrong.
I would NEVER stoop so low as to use EPO or HGH. I want races to be clean, to be decided by TRAINING and GUTS! Not by what is in the medicine cabinet at home. Legalizing these substances would be the DEATH of the ENTIRE sport and make it no better than PRO WRESTLING!!
I'd rather come in LAST and know my results would be LEGITIMATE no matter what ANYBODY ELSE is doing!!!
Besides... I can't afford it ;-) |
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| -- that which cannot be proven as true must be regarded as false or not affirmed as true |
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Cosmic Kid
Posts:4209
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| 03/11/2014 04:26 PM |
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Moralist.
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| Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 03/11/2014 08:35 PM |
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Patched, you realize your byline applies to every clean winner ever, including you.
Ben |
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longslowdistance
Posts:2881
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| 03/11/2014 08:37 PM |
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Hey Patched Tube, great rant. Seriously.
My question for you: have you ever consumed caffeine?
Just curious.
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Patched Tube
Posts:29
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| 03/12/2014 12:37 PM |
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Posted By 79 pmooney on 03/11/2014 08:35 PM
Patched, you realize your byline applies to every clean winner ever, including you.
Ben
Ah... I have cleverly avoided that problem by never winning. ;-) |
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| -- that which cannot be proven as true must be regarded as false or not affirmed as true |
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Patched Tube
Posts:29
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| 03/12/2014 12:44 PM |
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Posted By Frederick Jones on 03/11/2014 08:37 PM
Hey Patched Tube, great rant. Seriously.
My question for you: have you ever consumed caffeine?
Just curious.
Well I suppose I'm a bit "soft" on doping: I've never elevated it on the moral plane to level of genocide as some folks do.
You do the crime, you do the time and then you move on - and no, I don't believe in first offense life time bans. I take it for granted that in cycling, as in every other sport, getting an edge by fair means or foul is simply part of the game. It may well that it would be a far better thing if it were not but I don't confuse the world as it is for the way I think it should be.
And its a funny thing: the athletes in the sport always seem to come to some sort of collective decision about what is legal, illegal and "beyond the pale". Barry Bonds never got drilled by a pitcher for taking steroids - but if he got caught "peeking" somebody would have put a fastball into his ribs.
Your mention of caffeine is instructive: one day a certain amount is doping, next day its perfectly fine. I did line up for one race with my system loaded with prednisone (a pretty nasty GI issue). Technically I'm as big a cheat as LA or essentially every other significant rider of that era. But I don't any sleep over it. |
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| -- that which cannot be proven as true must be regarded as false or not affirmed as true |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 03/12/2014 01:04 PM |
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Posted By Patched Tube on 03/12/2014 12:44 PM
And its a funny thing: the athletes in the sport always seem to come to some sort of collective decision about what is legal, illegal and "beyond the pale". Barry Bonds never got drilled by a pitcher for taking steroids
THAT just might be the most interesting thing said on the topic of doping yet.
But the non-doping pitchers wouldn't have done any damage anyway so the point might very well be moot |
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Orange Crush
Posts:4499
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| 03/12/2014 01:18 PM |
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Not just interesting, those two sentences pretty much define the doping playing field in any sport.
Its a playing field that gets defined in change rooms, showers and lockers, well outside the eye of the powers that be (or the public's). |
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79pmooney
Posts:3180
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| 03/12/2014 02:21 PM |
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Dale, the risks of eating spinach: Careful. Eating spinach (and other, just as "healthy" foods) lead me down a path to hardcore narcotics. Serious.
Two falls ago, I passed a kidney stone. Pain! The hospital had no qualms issuing me a prescription to oxycontin. Spinach has a high level of oxalytes (??) that come out of solution in your kidneys to form stones. So do beets and beet greens, both of which I love and eat regularly.
Funny, I got to the triage desk at walk-in emergency in so much pain that all I could do was flop down, elbows on the desk, while the nurse went through her routine and asked me questions. And when she asked, I would look up and ask her to repeat it. I was in so much pain, I had no idea what was going on around me. It was a 40 minute wait to see a doctor. By that time, apparently the stone had passed and the pain was gone. But my body felt racked by that experience for two days.
So careful with that spinach!
Ben |
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Dale
Posts:1767
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| 03/12/2014 08:25 PM |
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| Didn't know it was a contributing factor to kidney stones. Mine's a different issue-- stuff high in vitamin K negates the effects of anti-coagulant I take so it makes me more prone to blood clots and pulmonary embolisms. I can eat the stuff, I just can't go Popeye crazy on it. |
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