Completely political so beware
Last Post 11/22/2020 03:50 PM by Orange Crush. 98 Replies.
Author Messages
79pmooney

Posts:2507

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08/12/2020 06:06 PM
Biden's VP pick - Kamela Harris. Right on!

I stayed away from the news last winter and spring as much as I could and didn't get wrapped up in the Democratic race. But I read the NY Times issue that contained speeches from all the Democratic front-runners with real attention. It was my first time paying any attention to several of them.

My impressions - for most, not much. Either same-old, same-old or "the speech" by rote or this guy (gal) cannot get his/her thoughts coherent. Joe Biden, give us your thoughts in clear, cohent English. Elizabeth Warren - better than most. And Kamela Harris - now she's got something to say, clearly real passion behind it and she sounds like she knows both the reality of what is and how to make things change.

For the past couple of months, I was thinking Biden was drifting away from her and I wold have to settle for a lesser "safer" choice. Well he did it. And yes, we will see a certain DT do his best to level her like he has so many females and Americans of color. Her belonging to both will spur him to new heights.

This takes me to the big question: can the Democrats keep their collective mouths shut enough that the old foot cannot fit? (If I had my way, I'd have an orthodontist wire the jaws to no more than i" apart. Running that wire down the front would make insertion even harder.) I"m pretty confident that DT will talk his way out of any chance if we just let him and not lower ourselves to his level.

Ben
longslowdistance

Posts:2189

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08/12/2020 07:14 PM
I have been baffled by 45's electoral success and his extremely strong support from more than a third of the US electorate. This interview clarified it all for me.
It's a longish interview, but highly recommended. I finally get it.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/11/901323433/gop-strategist-takes-on-trump-his-party-it-was-all-a-lie

As for the Dems, this is their election to blow. They are more than capable of doing exactly that. The "I wanted Bernie and AOC " crowd are ready to burn it all down.
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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08/12/2020 07:43 PM
1. Of course it was all a lie. All Trump supporters wanted was a political hand grenade. He’s delivering in spades. It’s as easy as that.

2. Clinton ignored the Sanders camp in 2016. Her VP pick was a disaster signaling she was looking right not left. I knew at that very moment she’d loose. Biden and Sanders have been working closely together. The scenario won’t repeat.

3. Harris pick is great. Now give her a mandate to tackle racial justice and equality. She is perfect for it. Don’t just make this about “first black woman” or capturing black vote (although those are fine notions), earn that vote and make it stick.
longslowdistance

Posts:2189

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08/12/2020 08:24 PM
After listening to the interview, I understand that 45's rock solid base is based on guilt free white grievance. Add on top Trump's embrace of kooky nut jobs, his mental instability, and the demonization of higher education, and viola we have the toxic brew that we now enjoy.
Again, if you can afford the time, the interview is gold.
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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08/12/2020 09:16 PM
I’m not a good listener. I read for most part.

The other thing to understand is that 45 is a product of decades long decline of country not its cause. The main risk of 2020 is not election itself but that when 45 gets booted everyone will be high fiving each other and then sit back, job done. Meanwhile the down slide will continue.

There was a good article recently on this. Because under Obama so little was done to reverse the handiwork of W, now Biden will have to do double duty. Then of course he was part of that previous administration so what does that tell you. https://prospect.org/justice/biden-must-end-bush-era-homeland-security-portland/
79pmooney

Posts:2507

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08/12/2020 10:42 PM
lsd, thanks for that link. I've missed Fresh Air since I started listening to the local jazz station which is music 24/7. That interview was eye-opening. But bigger, I noticed the podcasts on the screen below. Had to listen to the one on Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. I read Malcolm X's Autobiography in high school. It had a profound influence on me. Reread it a year ago, Paid real attention to his change with respect to MLK. The Fresh Air interview talks about how Martin Luther King changed in his last several years to come a long ways toward Malcolm X' thinking.

To bring this back on topic - I'll bet Kamela Harris bends Biden's ear effectively regarding real issues to minorities. Homeland Security might see some changes. (Just for fun, how many whites has it bagged? How many upstanding minorities has it bagged? Little things Biden probably has no clue on and Harris probably has at the top of her head.) Thiis assuming they win.

I'm going to have to get the book "The Sword and the Shield: The Revolutionary Lives of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr."

Ben
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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08/17/2020 11:29 AM
Dems need to make this election solely a referendum on Trump....don't respond to his attacks and nonsense. Stay on message and hammer it home.

Health Care - Trump is trying to take away people's insurance in the middle of a pandemic
Economy - In the crapper because there was no coordinated response to COVID19. Other countries are opening up while we remain in chaos.
Military - No response to bounties ending with "I don't care what the military says" quote.
COVD19 - the clips speak for themselves.

And Biden needs to challenge Trump to a debate immediately...."Sure, I'll debate him...how about next week?"

Establish the rules of engagement and put the pressure on the Trump campaign to respond instead of continually letting them do it.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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08/17/2020 12:15 PM
There's obviously a lot of attack lines possible on Trump. I am not sure that the economy or bounties are clearcut ones.

Most countries economies are severely in doldrums. US situation doesn't stand out as particularly extreme as far as I can tell, say compared to Canada or NL. Its mostly just about the chaotic covid non-response. That's a very valid attack line.

The bounty story could severely blow up in Biden's face. Other than the evidence not being particularly convincing, the dollar figures involved pale in comparison to money US has sunk into country, much of which ended up in wrong hands. Remember Afghanistan Papers?

Aside from health care and COVID, I would use race relations and use of paramilitary forces as attack lines. Much more clear cut arguments that will speak directly to voters.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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08/17/2020 01:24 PM
Sorry, I'll try to be clearer....I want the Dems to attack him about his bullschitt that he is strong on the military. he isn't. The bounty issue is just one tactic in the larger strategy. Threatening to hold pay raises, his lies that he gave the largest raises in history, his lies that they "had no bullets", etc.

And no doubt there are a lot of attack lines to Trump....but Dems need to pic 3 and stick with them. That is one of Trump's great strengths...he overwhelms us with controversy. By the time you begin to respond to one, he is igniting another. Dems need to coalesce around 3 main story lines and hammer the schitt out of him. If you want to use race relations in place of the military, fine with me. But economy of story lines is critical. You could also use his attacks on the USPS and counter that with the fact that Trump and many of his staff vote by mail.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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08/17/2020 02:01 PM
I don't think bounties or military factor much in what will get people mobilized. The bounties have a huge yawn factor other than some fake journalistic and political outrage.

Like in 2016 it will really be about domestic issues. Agreed that economy is big on people's minds but I don't see a very clearcut attack line. The Covid angle isn't it, other economies aren't really opening up. Remember New Zealand with top notch response? Guess what they just postponed their elections and suddenly they aren't looking so good. Ultimately Covid will wreak havoc on every country. The number of deaths in US compared to other countries, that one really is a sore thumb with many.

Economy wise what stands out for me more is the petty trade wars and the lengthy renegotiating of NAFTA, for what purpose exactly?
longslowdistance

Posts:2189

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08/17/2020 03:03 PM
To put his name on it. Legacy. Ego trip.
Dale

Posts:1335

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08/17/2020 03:43 PM
Nope, just attack him for his lies and have surrogates mock him as ruthlessly as he's mocked others. It will get under his skin and he'll go even more bat-guano crazy.

Biden-Harris need to take a generally high road but they need to round up as many mainstream R's to send the message that tRump has hijacked the Republican Party.

B-H also need to talk about what they will do to restore normalcy to the cabinet.

"When elected I will nominate someone with a background in education to be Secretary of Education.
When elected I will nominate someone with a background in labor to head the Labor Department.
When elected I will nominate someone with a science degree to head the EPA."
Etc. etc.
smokey52

Posts:336

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08/17/2020 08:46 PM
Changing the Senate is also crucial. Mitch has enabled tRump in order to gain control of the courts, not just the Supreme, and push a horrible tax cut.
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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08/18/2020 09:24 AM
Definitely Smokey.

Also agree w Dale. 58% indicated they will vote Biden cause he’s not Trump. There’s a lack of enthusiasm that needs to be addressed as weak point. You won’t get there going negative but you may get there with some commonsensical proposals.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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08/18/2020 12:34 PM
This is just so fooking good. Gives me some hope that maybe we can turn this thing around.....

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1295531669580120064?s=20
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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08/18/2020 12:38 PM
Also agree w Dale. 58% indicated they will vote Biden cause he’s not Trump. There’s a lack of enthusiasm that needs to be addressed as weak point. You won’t get there going negative but you may get there with some commonsensical proposals.


I don't care why they vote for Biden.....this needs to be a referendum on Trump's failures. Policy is nearly immaterial at this point. Not being Trump is sufficient at this point.

Will it be sufficient for long-term plans? Probably not.....but I don't care. the house is burning down. I'm not really gonna fight over whether we should save the china or the photos at this point. Put the fire out adn then we can examine the damage / establish priorities.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1335

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08/18/2020 01:02 PM

Posted By Cosmic Kid on 08/18/2020 12:38 PM
[quote
I don't care why they vote for Biden.....this needs to be a referendum on Trump's failures. Policy is nearly immaterial at this point. Not being Trump is sufficient at this point.


Will it be sufficient for long-term plans? Probably not.....but I don't care. the house is burning down. I'm not really gonna fight over whether we should save the china or the photos at this point. Put the fire out adn then we can examine the damage / establish priorities.





Not just Trump's failures but the total collapse of the Republican party and their enabling the very worst of Trumps personality and policies, in addition to their policies that are so lopsidedly tilted to the 1/10 of the top 1%.

Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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08/18/2020 04:38 PM

Posted By Cosmic Kid on 08/18/2020 12:38 PM
Also agree w Dale. 58% indicated they will vote Biden cause he’s not Trump. There’s a lack of enthusiasm that needs to be addressed as weak point. You won’t get there going negative but you may get there with some commonsensical proposals.


I don't care why they vote for Biden.....this needs to be a referendum on Trump's failures. Policy is nearly immaterial at this point. Not being Trump is sufficient at this point.



The only reason I am bringing this up is because there was a lack of enthusiasm for Clinton which is a big factor in why she lost. She also decided to do the negative versus negative game against Trump. This is Trumps ground game. Again she lost.Don't want to make same mistakes twice. History shows that Ds need reasons for people to vote for them, not just reasons why they shouldn't vote for the other guy. Otherwise turnout may be affected. When turnout goes down, they lose.


Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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08/18/2020 11:17 PM
Clinton was a deeply polarizing candidate. Very few people did not have strong feelings about her, either positive or negative.

Biden is, for the most part, not polarizing. So while there may be not be much enthusiasm for him, the fact that there are not strong negative emotions attached to him should help counter that, as long as Trump himself drives such negative reactions.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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08/19/2020 12:08 PM
Was in the market for some new gravel tires after a slideout two weeks ago....wanna guess what brand I just ordered?

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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08/19/2020 12:46 PM
How is this in the political thread tho? I now we are stuck with an extra wide political thread.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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08/19/2020 03:44 PM
Trump went on a rant today about Goodyear because someone claimed that they had banned MAGA hats (which they had not).

Don’t buy GOODYEAR TIRES - They announced a BAN ON MAGA HATS. Get better tires for far less! (This is what the Radical Left Democrats do. Two can play the same game, and we have to start playing it now!).


Luckily the thread just went to the next page, so the widey is gone.

He is such a fooking idiot...Goodyear is the last US-owned tire manufacturer, produce in the US and are in one of the most critical swing states....but he got butthurt over a false report and couldn't stop himself from scoring an own goal.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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08/24/2020 09:55 PM
Excellent read
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/joe-biden-kamala-harris-and-the-limits-of-representation
79pmooney

Posts:2507

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08/24/2020 11:34 PM
I didn't read all of the article. I basically agree, but ... the process of change has to start from where we are. Kamela isn't a single mom who has seen that life first hand. But I am quite certain that growing up in Oakland, she saw and heard a lot. I'm willing to bet that she gets Biden's ear re: the realities of race, that Biden will hear and we will start to see changes. (Like Hilary had Bill's ear re: health insurance. That is still a work in progress, but things are changing. I don't expect this race stuff to move much faster. Race relations in this country are steeped in tradition and the unspoken that go back 400 years.

I wish that Biden was someone who "got with the program" wholeheartedly 25 years ago, that Harris had real street cred and on and on. Very seldom do I get my wish in politics. We (liberals, Blacks, other minorities ...) don't get to sit back and expect the world to transform because we have those two in office. But ... we d*** well better get them into office.

OC, Oakland is my favorite city in the country because it is the only one I know of where if I am full of s***, a Black man will have no issue telling me to my face. I lived across the Oakland Estuary on the early '80s. (The island of Alameda; where all roads lead to Oakland.) It is a city where many Blacks hold their heads high. The city in 1979 that had a Black mayor and it wasn't a big deal. (I didn't learn it for a few months after moving to Alameda despite him being newly elected. He was the best on the ballot so the people of Oakland put him in office. Decent mayor. Got re-elected. But in Oakland (unlike the rest of the country it wasn't a big deal. Any time I went anywhere else it was "you have that Black mayor!" Oakland is the city where Black Power made a major change that still rings true. I wish Oakland was the rule and not the exception.
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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08/25/2020 09:57 AM
We had a friend who lived in Oakland and went to school at Berkeley so regularly visited back in early 90s. Quite the contrast with west bay once you exit BART.

The issue here is that a promise of a return to “normal” is perfectly fine for those who are middle class and better, and its enough to get them to a voting booth (or mailbox). But we are privileged. For those at bottom of pile, and this includes a significant portion of crucial black vote, there’s precious little difference between normal and Trump. They’ve also seen that under Obama not much if anything changed. So it’s about “show me the money”, what will you do for us? Absence of that means they may not vote again. This is the key risk for Biden. Just putting a black female VP on ticket doesn’t cut it as Obama showed. In absence of a message I could see odds of a Biden Harris ticket decline towards November. Trump understands this, and definitely has a message, as xenophobic and outrageous as that message may be, it does energize his base.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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08/25/2020 10:11 AM
In absence of a message I could see odds of a Biden Harris ticket decline towards November. Trump understands this, and definitely has a message, as xenophobic and outrageous as that message may be, it does energize his base.


the race will inevitably tighten....it always does.

And Trump's "Law & Order" messaging is already gaining traction and will only gain more momentum as protests turn into riots. Kenosha, Portland is a mess, etc.

Everyone was OK with the protests for awhile, especially when they were generally peaceful. Now all the white folks only see violence and just want to black folks to go back to life as "normal" (i.e. when they didn't have to think about it).

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:2507

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08/25/2020 11:45 AM
I hope the protests don't derail the election. But I also hope they continue a long time. The last sentence of the article OC linked to summed my feelings. (And what was done 50 years ago better in Oakland than any other US city.)

"But I think often of what Malcolm once said about freedom: 'You get your freedom by letting your enemy know that you’ll do anything to get your freedom. Then you’ll get it. It’s the only way you’ll get it.’”

Malcolm X got that slavery never ended in this country. It just changed forms. We think of the 13th Amendment as abolishing slavery. It doesn't. In fact, it is the first time slavery is addressed, recognized and formalized. Yes. private ownership of slaves was prohibited under the amendment. But slavery was perpetuated to eternity as part of the penal system.

When the country was founded, the vast majority of Blacks were born slaves (like horses were born horses). After the civil war there were a few years of chaos when these slaves were allowed to run wild. Only recourse was to use vigilante justice as applied by the KKK. The 13th Amendment restored order. Now, the wording changed. Blacks now were not born slaves, they were born felons. (Butd speaking that now understood wording - verboten.)

The return to slavery and order. Now, since Blacks (and especially Black males; being the most useful slaves) were default felons, all you had to do was stop, arrest, convict and incarcerate them. Now they were in their proper place, slaves for the duration of their incarceration and marked for life.

Now, various court rulings and other changes, made to appeal to the liberals, meant that if you stopped a Black man for DWB, you could never say those words and in fact you had to find a different reason to have stopped him and a different reason to arrest him. (A bag of dope tossed in the trunk works quite well. In court, the officer's word counts for far more than that of a Black felon and remember, he was a felon long before this stop; in fact dating back to birth.) Aside: before the Civil War, there were blacks in the north that were free men. But Federal marshals frequently arrested them and "returned" them to slave owners, the proper duty of that marshal being to return Blacks to where the "belonged" as men born into slavery. Now it is the "duty" of law enforcement to do the same, serve those Black men with felonies.

Oh, and back to slavery. Yes, private ownership of slaves is no longer, but the government does contract out the keeping and use of slaves through the privatization of prisons and contracting that slave work to factories and farms has been happening all along.

I want to see the day when this stuff gets talked about because until it does, nothing important is changing. We've been talking around what is for 200 years. That we have, as a core element of our existence, a non-white people still that are born to be slaves and white people for whom their calling is to return them to that slavery (or administer the "justice" of ending their lives).

What we have now is a system of laws and enforcement founded on beliefs passed father to son that will take generations to change. My dream is that I get to hear others speak openly about what I just wrote. That will be the start. (Please, another Malcolm X that gets a longer reign in the spotlight.)

Ben
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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08/25/2020 12:49 PM
Trump will of course want to see those violent protests continue because it helps him. He can use the federal forces to stoke those protests. He can do exactly that because of Patriot Act and powers given to DHS. In this, the legacy of W is the gift that keeps on giving, despite W's protestations that Trump would abuse those powers. The scenario that plays out now was predicted but waved aside as "nah, that's never going to happen". Return to normal should not be removal of Trump, but removal of conditions that allowed his rise to power.
longslowdistance

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08/25/2020 09:01 PM
Please continue regarding the conditions the help create the current situation, seriously, I read your insights with interest.
I'll add a comment: the USA has done a lot right and wrong, IMO a lot right, but when we get scared, we do stuff that we later regret. Examples: the Aliens and Sedition act (look it up), interment of asian americans in WW2, and some of the response after 9/11. Not to mention the elephant at the table that the majority of the general public is just now starting to regret, subjugation of blacks. All this said, the 9/11 sucker punch also is a legitimate conditioner.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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08/26/2020 10:48 AM
I am seething this morning....some militia cosplay yahoo shot and killed two protestors last night in Kenosha....cops not only welcomed their presence, but gave them water and thanked them for being out there.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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08/26/2020 02:32 PM
CK - A 17 year old, his name and picture are already all over the internet. Your average looking 17 year old (I have two of them), in summer shorts, while brandishing an assault rifle.

LSD - sure but the US is not alone in having done a lot of things wrong and right. This pretty much goes for every country. I could rattle of half a dozen items for Canada (residential schools, internment of Japanese-Canadians etc.) or the Netherlands (colonialism, slave trade etc.).

The issue as I see it is your politics has been adrift for a few decades. Or as Ben Lerner put it in an essay today, the November election could be the final exit before Trump's way could be the only way remaining (it was posted in a Dutch paper and I can't find an English original). The Republican party has been drifting further and further into extreme positions (if you can all them that). The Democrats trying to target that magical middle have been following along in this drift to the right leaving an ever widening gaping hole in the political spectrum to left and no one looking out for the average voter. So why bother to show up then?

And from another perspective, my brief history of recent republican presidents is as follows.
Nixon tried to get away with illegal acts but got booted (or took the honor upon himself to exit).

Reagan successfully managed to hide behind plausible deniability even though everyone knew he was guilty.

By the time W came along, no attempt is made to hide illegal actions, they were out in the open. An illegal war? Sure why not. Illegal rendition? Sure why not. Waterboaring? We have a memo for that. This same guy is now being celebrated by TV hosts with a big smirk on his face and apparently has a high approval rating among democratic voters.

Is it any wonder then that Trump declares he can shoot someone in broad daylight and get away with it. And that now you have his followers actually acting on this? By giving previous actions a pass, you are now squarely in a situation where anything goes. So Obama can give a nice speech about Trump being a danger to democracy (he is) but it is that same Obama who decided to give the W administration a pass and "look forward". Its all a logical sequence of events.

/end rant.
smokey52

Posts:336

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08/28/2020 08:34 PM
I guess it's easier to believe lies than to accept the truth.
Cosmic Kid

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09/19/2020 06:31 AM
RIP, Notorious RBG. She may have been small in stature, but she was truly fierce. A towering giant of a woman.

We are now officially fooked as a society.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1335

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09/21/2020 08:46 AM
Nauseated at the prospect of this evil, dysfunctional dictator packing the court with another partisan hack.

What a distressing time
smokey52

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09/28/2020 09:57 AM
I'm shocked! shocked! that tRump is all show and no substance in all his business endeavors.
79pmooney

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09/28/2020 04:03 PM
smokey, have you been following the NY Times articles on tRump's tax returns? (No substance? His business losses as reported to the IRS are substantial.)

Enlightening reading:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200927&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta®i_id=119138258&segment_id=39191&user_id=a1d9a383c87e899abb6914a995b92637

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes-timeline.html

Pretty clear that rTump is "banking" on another term as a debt shield. Next few years he has a few coming due.

I just spent a few hours going through 5 years of canceled checks, keeping a few, tossing a paper bag of the rest. Part of cleaning up my life so when I go I don't leave a mess but also part of trying to leave an open life. There is stuff n there I am not proud of, but it is what it is and if someone goes through my stuff, it's there/

In the process, I got to see the checks I wrote out the IRS every year. These were the tough post head injury years when I was working for not a whole lot of money. Every year, a check in the thousands. In only 3 of those years did tRump pay more than I did.

Ben
Orange Crush

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09/28/2020 04:45 PM

In only 3 of those years did tRump pay more than I did.

Ben


Yeah, that is borderline insane. Then again you probably also paid more than Amazon paid in corporate taxes. Was that not zero in 2019? The attention Trump's tax avoidance (or evasion? The distinction is important) gets is well-deserved but he's still just a 2 bit player in this shell game.



Dale

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09/29/2020 08:14 AM
OC, we can bag on tRump all day long but you are spot on. There is something inherently wrong with the system that allows tax avoidance to that degree. Big corporations, uber-wealthy, and those in poverty pay little to no income tax while the rest of us pay our full amount and then some.
79pmooney

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09/30/2020 03:24 PM
I get the NY Times Briefings. This morning had a real funny. Back to back true statements.

"Biden’s bottom line: 'Under this president, we have become weaker, sicker, poorer, more divided, and more violent.' Trump’s bottom line: 'In 47 months, I’ve done more than you’ve done in 47 years, Joe.'"

Yup.

longslowdistance

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09/30/2020 09:27 PM
45's base could care less. What a mess.
Orange Crush

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09/30/2020 09:46 PM
It just came to mind that your elections have all the makings of the insanity that was trench warfare in WW1. How long has this circus been going on now? So much time for everyone to dig deep trenches that they subsequently refuse to get out of even when war is over (election is done). And so eternal hatred and distrust is born. Crazy.

I just learned last week that I’ll be voting in three weeks. Provincial but still. A sane timeline. Plenty of time for folks to make up their mind.
longslowdistance

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10/01/2020 10:49 AM
Read and op ed that 45 is going bonkers as part of a planned deal: I (45) go quietly if you don't prosecute.
Cosmic Kid

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10/02/2020 12:06 PM
Read and op ed that 45 is going bonkers as part of a planned deal: I (45) go quietly if you don't prosecute.


No way....just like I doubt the COVID19 tests are a stunt to get him out on "health reasons".

His narcissism would never let him seem weak or frail. It is not within a narcissists makeup to be able to let others view them that way.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
smokey52

Posts:336

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10/02/2020 08:10 PM
Who would have thought that Herman Cain would be tRump's role model?
longslowdistance

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10/02/2020 08:57 PM
Hard so hard not to lay in on the irony. But even with 45's inadequacy, at this point in time, IMO, the US and world would be better if he was not more ill than his usual baseline. Get sick in mid November, but not now.
longslowdistance

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10/02/2020 10:15 PM
Shoe dropped.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2020/10/01/american-cyclist-suspended-by-team-after-pro-trump-comments/114176050/
The lead is generous. A dick is a dick. It's a business.
Cosmic Kid

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11/03/2020 09:13 PM
We are completely lost as a country....Trump is actually gonna win this.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

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11/03/2020 10:15 PM
CK I am holding out hope that the uncounted mail-in ballots sway a few red states. NY Times has a list of the states, what the margin in that state is and the number of predicted uncounted ballots. Many red states have several times the margin uncounted. I"m hoping many of those are blue.

I don't think we are going to know until the end of the week. This could be messy. Messy like civil unrest we haven't seen in our lifetimes perhaps.
Orange Crush

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11/04/2020 09:23 AM
Seeing overnight trend in some of the swing states I think Biden will take this by a very tiny whisker. But it’s closer than Lemond versus Fignon. Minimal if any gain in senate and disappointing losses in house. Lessons continue to not be learned.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/04/2020 09:38 AM
Seeing overnight trend in some of the swing states I think Biden will take this by a very tiny whisker. But it’s closer than Lemond versus Fignon. Minimal if any gain in senate and disappointing losses in house. Lessons continue to not be learned.


Here is the hard core reality....no significant gains in the House, failure to take control of the Senate and maybe a narrow WH win. The country showed that they have embraced Trumpism last night.

Assume for a minute that Biden wins (big if)....GOP still controls the Senate, so no matter what the WH and the House try and do, it all dies on the Senate floor. No COVID relief, no court reform, no judicial nominees confirmed (hell they may not even have votes on Biden cabinet nominees), the SC is still packed 6-3 so Roe v Wade dies, ACA is wiped out and gay marriage gets overturned. In the meantime, the economy will crater in 2021, Biden and the Dems will be blamed and GOP coasts in 2024.

We are so completely and deeply fooked.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
6ix

Posts:375

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11/04/2020 10:14 AM
Completely agree with CK.

So my question is this. Once they strip away ACA, what happens to everyone that has pre-existing conditions who works for themselves? Totally screwed? Whole lot of people are going to be without insurance due to Covid being considered a pre-existing condition. But hey, at least all those unwanted babies will be saved. Only care about them until they are born, then phook off!! That's the GOP mentality. They want all the control but none of the responsibility.

It's high time California, Oregon and Washington (please include Colorado) break away.
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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11/04/2020 10:45 AM
Yes agreed CK. Even if Biden wins you are pretty much looking at 4 years of lame duck and an overall stalemate.

Whatever you make of the electoral college, the popular vote shows that about half the country sees fit to vote for a racist. And somewhere in Nebraska, a quarter or the vote went against an addendum to abolish slavery as a method of punishment. That about sums it up.
79pmooney

Posts:2507

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11/04/2020 12:07 PM
On a lighter note: we are Biden our time to see if we have to make America grate some more.
79pmooney

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11/04/2020 12:55 PM
OC, slavery is completely core to this country's existence. Early colonialists who came to South Carolina were given land based on the slaves and indentured servants they procured to work it. Many of them were from wealthy families but were 4th sons and not in line for any inheritance. Or from very wealthy families that lost it with the swings of power between the English monarchy, church and overthrows. Those landowners/slave holders were a small minority among first the Natives, then the African slaves. To give them an equal place at the table when the Constitution was being drafted, they got to count 3/5ths of their slaves as people. That still didn't give them enough. 2 senators per state, despite the far lower populations of the southern states helped boost their share of power. The electoral college furthered that. The North got to be proud of their "better" non-slave status (took those states varying times to abolish slavery), all the while profiting immensely from the raw product produced s cheaply in the South. (And allowing federal marshals to comb their stated looking for escaped slave, capturing both ex-slaves and freed men and returning them to slavery.)

After the civil war, the South got to count the freed Blacks but suppressed the Black vote. Also got slavery formalized in the Constitutions for the first time. In the penal system. Together with the concept that all Black men are born felons, that has played out rather well. There are penitentiaries where the primary labor is working cotton fields for private landowners. There is a song "Angola Prison Blues" about a teen jailed for life for a murder he didn't do picking cotton outside the Angola Penitentiary (located in Louisiana where the Angola Plantation stood antebellum) working the fields his slave ancestors worked. The teen might be fiction. The rest is true. I heard the story from Christian Scott, jazz trumpeter from New Orleans. He tells it as the teen being his cousin, at his house when the murder took place,

Big picture, we aren't a much prettier society than the Spanish empire or the British empire and unless we change our ways a lot, we are probably not going to fare much better. (Does anybody remember a powerful country spending its way in to bankruptcy in an arms race while bogged down militarily in a poor, divided country; all the time suppressing its citizens and keeping thousands imprisoned. It was a long time ago, thirty years, but maybe the clue that the country's initials were like ours; four letters starting with US will help.)
longslowdistance

Posts:2189

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11/04/2020 08:27 PM
Hoping that Biden and McConnell will get it together and get some bipartisan stuff done. Fixing the pandemic response is number one, perhaps could be followed shortly with the massive infrastructure bill that Trump should have made his first task to prove he was not just a bomb thrower.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/04/2020 09:20 PM
LSD, there is zero incentive for McConnell to work with Biden (if he wins). No COVID reliefs, no judicial nominations, government shutdowns...economy really hits the skids and Dems lose the House in 2022 and then GOP takes the WH back in 2024.

We are fooked.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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11/04/2020 10:03 PM
Mitch working together? Bahahaha.

If that was the game plan then go back to start. Do not collect $$.
Dale

Posts:1335

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11/04/2020 11:20 PM
^ 100% correct. They have proven they’d rather destroy the country than do anything cooperative with the democrats.

Massive pandemic? Economic collapse? Devastating trade war? Rollback of pollution laws?
As long as we’re the last man standing and we can regain total power, it’s all fine.

Such evil.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/05/2020 01:45 PM
Race is tightening up across the board...only person to extend a lead is Biden in NV.

PA Sec of State said they hope to complete counting today / this evening. That would seal the deal if Biden wins it....won't matter what happens in AZ, NV or GA after that.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:2189

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11/05/2020 06:37 PM
Saw a funny meme (well, funny at least to me, YMMV):

Ivanka Trump just applied to become Joe Biden's daughter.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/06/2020 07:03 AM
Holy schitt...Biden took the lead in GA.

Let’s do this, America.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/06/2020 08:40 AM
Decision Desk HQ calls it....Joe Biden, POTUS 46.

https://twitter.com/DecisionDeskHQ/status/1324710866516905984?s=20

Now the really hard work begins.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1335

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11/06/2020 09:13 AM
I wonder how long it will take the GOP to recognize how badly they were suffering from Stockholm syndrome and recoil at what they embraced?

79pmooney

Posts:2507

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11/06/2020 10:12 AM
CK, let's call Biden our President, not a "POTUS". POTUS has always sounded to me like the polite initials of a space station sewage system. I had no trouble applying to our previous but let's just hope that our next is actually "presidential".
79pmooney

Posts:2507

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11/06/2020 10:19 AM
Still Biden our time to learn the correct spelling of the word gr8.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/06/2020 11:49 AM
I wonder how long it will take the GOP to recognize how badly they were suffering from Stockholm syndrome and recoil at what they embraced?


At least a generation. A few will pretend that they had integrity the whole time, but this election shows that Trumpism is a live and well across the country, even if he lost the WH.

CK, let's call Biden our President, not a "POTUS". POTUS has always sounded to me like the polite initials of a space station sewage system.


I have referred to President's as POTUS long before Trump...and it has a long-history.

https://www.vox.com/2015/9/27/9399029/potus-word-history

Plus, Obama created the POTUS twitter account. So I say we double-down on use of the term to take it back from the Orange Fuckopotamus.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:2507

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11/06/2020 11:53 AM
CK, I know, I didn't like the term POTUS then. I never liked it (until the outhouse analogy fit).
eurochien

Posts:106

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11/06/2020 12:54 PM
"Fuckopotamus" lol.
79pmooney

Posts:2507

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11/06/2020 03:11 PM
You guys here the latest court case. Trump's lawyers are going to introduce the Beatle's song "I am a Walrus" as evidence that the walruses of Alaska should be allowed to cast votes, that the vote deadline be pushed back to include that count. Also that Alaska's electoral votes be upped to accommodate those previously uncounted citizens. (There's talk of extending this to seals and otters. That could push the electoral count so high it might be decades before we see another Democrat in office.)

Walruses obviously cannot wield pens or styluses so they will be asked to show the appropriate number of tusks, one for Democrats, two for Republicans. (The ACLU is gearing up for a big fight on this as the women cannot cast votes.)

Rapidly recruited poll workers are lining up along the Aleutian Islands as I type. (Get ready for a big stink. I've never met a walrus, but I've raced small sailboats within a couple of feet of sea lions perched on the bouys we used as racing marks. They smell really bad! Far, far worse than seals.)

Sorry guys. Biden my time is taking me to bad places.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/06/2020 03:34 PM
BY the way, in case anyone missed it, last night after Trump's off-the-rails remarks, Anderson Cooper (apparently all out of fooks to give) said he was like "an obese turtle on his back, flailing in the sun."

It was glorious.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
6ix

Posts:375

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11/06/2020 04:21 PM
I watched that 'press conference' live last night. My sanity has been forever damaged by 45.

When are the adults going to come into the room and haul him off to the insane asylum? Otherwise, they are ALL complicit.

Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/06/2020 06:33 PM
Narrator: They already are complicit.

Fuck them all.

I know everyone wants the networks to call the election, but I want to them to drag it out, as it is wearing on his narcissism while also giving him fleeting moments of hope. Let him fooking twist.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:2189

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11/06/2020 07:52 PM
Alternatively giving more time to recruit crazies.
OTOH, if the networks stall on calling a winner long enough, Fox News will be the first to call it for Biden. Perfect.PS as it stands 45 will lose by the same electoral college vote he won by in 2016. He called that win one of the greatest landslides ever. You can’t make this stuff up!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/06/2020 08:26 PM
Alternatively giving more time to recruit crazies.


If this race gets called now or in 2 days, that ship sailed long before the election. His rabid base was never going to accept the results of this election if he lost. He laid the groundwork for that months ago.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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11/07/2020 02:04 PM
The race got called as soon as the difference in PA exceeded 0.5 percent the threshold for recount. No big mystery there.

The path of next 4 years won’t be known until Jan 5 the Georgia senate runoffs.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/07/2020 05:28 PM
Lots of work still to do, but today is a good day.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:2189

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11/07/2020 07:49 PM
Watching his speech. Gotta say he is laying it down. Mike drop is not possible right now, but full credit.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/07/2020 10:03 PM
Though Kamala was terrific....
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:2507

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11/08/2020 01:40 PM
I went to the farmers market yesterday morning. Cold, wet, small crowd. Vendors were quietly juibulent. Stopped at the vendor selling unusual meats (buffalo, yak, venison and the like and my favorite, duck eggs). I was stocked on eggs and she hadn't had them for months but I always say hi. Said it was a great day and rermembered as soon as the words left my mouth, she is rural Oregon, not foo-foo Portland and we never talked politics. No problem. She was going to break out a bottle of good wine. Second thought, boubon.

Also talked to an ACLU volunteer, a young man(?) of color with eyeshade. He was sure this was the start of a new era, that the young were going to change everything. I kept quiet but I don't share his optimism. This is just a small start. The next 4 years are going to be mostly just undoing some of the damage of the current administration, much like Clinton had to dig us out of enormous deficit and Obama both the deficit and 2008 mess.

Funny, but I have had a feeling that we have had one power that would, if necessary, keep Trump in check - the military. Yes, Trump is Commander in Chief. But he lost the respect of the military leaders long ago. If he steps too far out of line, they will step up to serve the greater United States. (Trump burned a few bridges when he showcased the military clearing the street for his bible shoot.) Admirals and generals know they will probably see budget cuts, etc, under Biden, but at least they get to be respected and be givine reasonable marching orders, not walks of shame.
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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11/09/2020 09:31 PM
The list of those who have yet to congratulate Biden and Harris include a who’s who of global dictators and most elected republicans.
smokey52

Posts:336

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11/09/2020 10:02 PM
The Mitch's father was Addison Mitchell McConnell Sr., so this incarnation really is a son-of-a-Mitch, and acts like it all the time. Hypocrite is too mild a term.
(I did get out for a ride today, just to keep cycling in the post.)
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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11/11/2020 10:41 AM
Mitch and Pompeii, the electoral college play as last resort
https://www.axios.com/trump-electoral-college-biden-68d94e27-ace7-4da8-9e22-af7a62fe5149.html

Meanwhile the Pentagon top is being replaced by lap dogs. Maybe Ben was on to something.
Dale

Posts:1335

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11/11/2020 11:17 AM
Isn't this where the military is supposed to step in to stop the coup, then line up the deposed dictator along with his henchmen/ loyalists, and have them executed in front of the palace?
6ix

Posts:375

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11/11/2020 01:38 PM
I saw a glimmer of hope on Saturday when Biden won. Hell, have to say I kinda cried a bit after listening to Harris and Biden speak later that night.

But then all of this????? It's so maddening, depressing, etc. I can't handle it. I'm angry all the time now. He needs to just go away. Now I'm only about 50% sure Biden will be President in a couple months.

What Pompeo said yesterday should be terrifying to anyone, republicans included.
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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11/11/2020 01:40 PM
Oh hell how did Pompeo change to Pompei?

Spell check will be death of us all.
79pmooney

Posts:2507

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11/11/2020 01:56 PM

Posted By Evan Solida on 11/11/2020 01:38 PM
I saw a glimmer of hope on Saturday when Biden won. Hell, have to say I kinda cried a bit after listening to Harris and Biden speak later that night.

But then all of this????? It's so maddening, depressing, etc. I can't handle it. I'm angry all the time now. He needs to just go away. Now I'm only about 50% sure Biden will be President in a couple months.

What Pompeo said yesterday should be terrifying to anyone, republicans included.


Dale, I have far more trust and hope for the military than the administration. Not all, but more than a few have good hearts. I think Edwin Rommel who fought for his homeland, NOT Adolph HItler. Read "A Higher Callr", about the air war over WW2 Germany. Almost none of those Luftwaffe pilots were Nazis. Lifelong military and proud of it, yes, but also true (not Proud Boy) patriots. They fought and died for their country despite their "leader".
79pmooney

Posts:2507

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11/11/2020 01:57 PM

Posted By Orange Crush on 11/11/2020 01:40 PM
Oh hell how did Pompeo change to Pompei?

Spell check will be death of us all.


Watch out! He's gone plural on us.

(too many years of Latin.)
longslowdistance

Posts:2189

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11/11/2020 07:48 PM
Just a tempering voice here, from a veteran in case you give a fart.
IMO, Full on unalloyed true believers of any stripe are not a good thing, including within the military.
longslowdistance

Posts:2189

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11/11/2020 07:49 PM
That said, the current US military is a better meritocracy than most.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/12/2020 12:13 PM
We all need to take a deep breath....there is no way for Trump to overturn the results of the election. This is nothing more than the dying histrionics of someone on their way out the door.

The only move that is concerning to me was the placement of one of Nunes stooges into a civil service job, which provides him protections against being fired. But ther is nothing to stop the admin from assigning him to a broom closet come January.

My guess is that shortly, perhaps even after Thanksgiving, Trump realizes that there is an exit ramp in sight and he can surround himself with sycophant's who provide him with the adulation he craves if he just stays at mar-A-Lago. By the time mid-December rolls around, I doubt he sets foot in Washington again. he nver liked the job anyway...so fully expect him to basically just stop doing it shortly.

Now, there remains the danger of people like Stephen Miller and Barr doing things while Trump is away, and we must remain vigilatn....but Trump is going. There is no doubt of that.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
6ix

Posts:375

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11/12/2020 06:47 PM
i wish I could share your optimism, CK. But seeing how he is systematically firing any and everyone that could potentially stand in his way of remaining in office indefinitely, I think there is only a 50% chance Biden is sworn in on January 20th. And I'm completely serious.

Shoot, he should be impeached for simply putting the country in harm's way if only to serve his ego. Prime opportunity for a terrorist attack. The country is for the taking right now. We already knew he isn't at the wheel (never cared to be,) but what about all the adults that are supposed to be in the room supervising him? All the baby-sitters are being fired leaving us extremely vulnerable.

Maybe he is egging on potential hostiles in order to start a war which would allow him to stay in office also. He is so evil that I wouldn't put it past him. This is straight up dictator stuff.

The amount of fury I have towards anyone that voted for him is at extreme levels right now.
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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11/12/2020 09:21 PM
Not 50% more like 5%. It’s an insane crackpot ploy with minimal odds of success.

But the simple fact that Trump allies are whispering about this and contemplating it should be cause for immense concern. It just goes to show how far off in the deep end of the pool the repubs are. As it was put correctly “ We may be one presidential tweet away from this gambit becoming orthodoxy for much of the Republican Party.”

Any notion of being able to collaborate with this bunch is ludicrous.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/13/2020 09:53 AM
i wish I could share your optimism, CK. But seeing how he is systematically firing any and everyone that could potentially stand in his way of remaining in office indefinitely, I think there is only a 50% chance Biden is sworn in on January 20th. And I'm completely serious.


Those he are firing are at the receiving end of long-held grudges and Trump is finally getting his pund of flesh (in his mind) Esper tried to distance himself from the Lafayette Square fiasco, Haspel (soon to be fired, I'm sure) refused to politicize some intelligence, etc.

Trump is not capable of long-term strategy....this is just him tossing the tpys out of the pram, to quote our British friends. He'll soon realize how easy it will be just to stay in FL and lash out when the felling moves him, while surrounded by adoring members who will assuage his bruised ego.

I have spent the last 4 years dismayed as our institutions have failed us....but there is no way he can prevent the inevitable on Jan. 20. He can make (and will) make it painful, but we all need to focus on the job ahead and let him have his histrionics.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/13/2020 02:05 PM
Per Greg Miller from the Washington Post....

- Biden 306, Trump 232 with all states called
- Trump ends AZ lawsuit, abandons 'voter fraud' hotline, tells Geraldo he'll do 'the right thing
- Trump law firm calls it quits
- PA won't do recount
- MI judge rejects GOP lawsuit

(me again) Trump is also 1-14 in lawsuits filed re: the election, and his one win was a minor victory re: a handful of mailed-in ballots in PA...numbers so low it is not even a rounding error.

He is done....we still need to remain vigilant, but don't get distracted by his tantrums.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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11/13/2020 02:29 PM
Yes Trump is 95% done. Yes you'll just have to get through his antics.

But the big problem here isn't Trump. It is the growing list of Repub enablers...Mitch, Pompeo, Graham, etc.. Supposedly the sane ones. Supposedly the guys Biden will have to deal with for the next 4 years.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/13/2020 03:01 PM
Mitch is the real danger...Trump was just his useful idiot for the last 4 years. As I noted upthread, he will now revert back to form and obstruct anything the Biden admin wants to do.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1335

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11/13/2020 03:14 PM
Trump may trash the White House and as many government agencies as possible on the way out but he's leaving.

Mitch won't be able to play the spoiler roll to the degree he has so far since his co-conspirator will be holed in at Mara Lago. It's one thing to be an ass when your boss is an ass but with Biden in there trying to make things work Mitch's schtick won't go over as well. Not saying he'll be a willing partner, he won't, but he'll have to cooperate to some degree.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3319

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11/13/2020 06:25 PM
I dunno, Dale....he did pretty damn well blocking everything under Obama.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3132

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11/22/2020 03:50 PM
If this is the measure of what Biden will offer in next four years, then good luck.

(Yes that Erin Brockovich, still one of my all time favourite movies)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/19/dear-joe-biden-are-you-kidding-me-erin-brockovich?fbclid=IwAR1xQ00wbU6CbvboIpKqVbwjhoi2RZrNbQSv9ci5dhxnuDvAWil0d0qHlHk


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