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mo' cyclist <> vehicle tension in CO - article
Last Post 06/08/2013 03:27 PM by Frederick Jones. 21 Replies.
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Bodynazi

Posts:51

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05/21/2013 02:04 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_23286642/tension-between-bikes-cars-longboards-high-jefferson-county

yet more people pissed off due to crazy amounts of traffic & cyclists trying to use the same roads. Doing group rides between Boulder <> Lyons (12 miles) [with hundreds & hundreds of cars going by]on a ginormous shoulder = can safely ride a double paceline in the bikelane/shoulder - often vehicles get alarmingly upset at us cyclists & scream whenst driving by.

Article says that up to 900 cyclists can ride up deer creek in a weekend day - that is a lot of riders. Add in Harleys, pick-ups and crotch-rockets = recipe for some not so good times.

That's 'prolly the worst thing about front range living - metric ass-tons of people trying to do everything outdoor related. This weekend will be a bonanza of folks up high camping, MTBing, red-necking and everything in-between. Monday 40,000+ cars/hr will be going through the Eisenhauer tunnel - tell me that's not nucking futz. ...

ah, to be back in SW WI for hours seeing [literally] zero cars ....
vtguy

Posts:235

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05/21/2013 03:16 PM
Wow! And I'd always been envious of cyclists who lived in Boulder. But the real takeaway for me was the last sentence in the article about cyclists policing our own. When we're riding, we're the representatives of cycling to the general public and our behavior should be beyond reproach. That means no blowing stop signs, public urination, riding two or three abreast where it's unsafe, etc.
Keith Richards

Posts:727

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05/21/2013 03:39 PM
The problem is that cars act like they have sole ownership of the roads. They don't.
----- It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
vtguy

Posts:235

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05/21/2013 03:47 PM
I agree that there are plenty of jerk drivers, but it's hard to maintain the high ground if we cyclists aren't scrupulous about obeying the rules of the road.
ChinookPass

Posts:430

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05/21/2013 04:44 PM
It does crack me up that you live somewhere so quiet that a few cyclists talking in the early morning is enough to light the locals' hair on fire.

Seems my neighbor has the right to run his AC whenever he wants making my backyard deck essentially unusable. In a place where the temperature rarely goes above 80...

In any case, sounds like there is "critical mass" there, i.e. enough cyclists that the cars don't necessarily "win" this one. Though what can you do when an anti-car zealot gets loaded and goes out and runs over a cyclist?
Bodynazi

Posts:51

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05/21/2013 05:56 PM
the geography around Boulder is excellent - the sheer number of people are not. More cars will go by in the first 5 minutes of tonight's ride than in 300+ miles of riding in SW WI - no kidding.

I do see a lot of cyclists that do not ride as far to the right as possible - recall a few videos at VN yestermonth where idiots were riding in the middle of the right lane (so cars could not get by) and the ensuing pissedoffness that occurred.

But yes, if it takes an extra few seconds to get by someone in a car - what's the BFD? It's like when people get into a vehicle, they suddenly become super-a-holes. (the same people that wander around Walmart like a drunkard)
pretender

Posts:40

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05/21/2013 06:34 PM
i've always maintained that a single set of rules for the road for all vehicles (and pedestrians) is asinine. we have different rules (here, anyways) for semi trucks, motorcycles, and emergency vehicles; people drive with phones, tvs, and while texting- why is it cyclists aren't afforded some discretion in terms of rolling stop signs, etc? not saying it should be a situation where we just get carte blanche, but there's a certain patent idiocy to applying the rules designed around 2-ton, internally combusted robots to 20-pound, human powered bikes.
RNDDUDE

Posts:78

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05/21/2013 08:58 PM
There is a billboard campaign going on in Los Angeles (I will try to get a pic posted when I get back to the USA) that says "Every lane is a bike lane". I have seem them city-wide, you gotta appreciate that someone in the gov't is trying to educate the driving masses. edit...found an article instead, link may not be live.... http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/03/bicyclists_one_lane_share_road_metro_la.php
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistant one. -Albert Einstein
CERV

Posts:151

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05/21/2013 11:11 PM
"I think some bad apples have given all cyclists and motorists a bad rap," Lucas said. "But I think it is also imperative on bicyclists in general to police their own."

Help me out here. Why should cyclists have to "police their own"? A cyclist shouldn't be held accountable for other cyclists any more than a motorist is for other motorists.
Dale

Posts:471

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05/22/2013 10:24 AM
When a cyclist screws up-- blow a stop light or whatever-- and gets nailed by a car, the cyclist dies or is injured.

When a motorist screws up-- blow a stop light or whatever-- and nails a cyclist, the cyclist dies or is injured.

It appears the laws of physics hold us accountable
ChinookPass

Posts:430

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05/22/2013 11:33 AM
by "police their own", that doesn't mean you or me out on a solo ride, ticketing folks for rolling stop signs. I think it refers more to the big group rides, making smaller groups on busy sections of road, being courteous at intersections, planning ahead so you are not doing pee stops on peoples lawns. You know, civilized stuff like that. Unfortunately many group rides seem to descend into some weird state of social chaos.
Yo Mike

Posts:260

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05/22/2013 12:03 PM
/It appears the laws of physics hold us accountable/

True enough, but it would also be nice if the law of the land would hold everyone accountable.

And then, there is the 'unwritten law' aka, common fukking sense / courtesy, like LOOKING before one flings their car door wide, or making a lane change, or signaling IN ADVANCE of stopping for a left turn across 2 lanes of oncoming traffic with no turning arrow at one of the worst places to make a turn in rush hour traffic.......

.....but I guess that phone call the driver was making at the time was far more important.....

/ rant
jacques_anquetil

Posts:202

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05/22/2013 12:08 PM
that doesn't sound pleasant at all. SW WI sounds way more appealing.
79pmooney

Posts:1097

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05/22/2013 01:11 PM
One of the big facts that we have as a society that no one wants to look at is that we are all quite OK with many laws not being enforced. Speed limits. Driving with cell phones. Etc., etc. No one would like it if every law was enforced. And yeah, they cannot be all the time. But suppose anyone could report someone driving while on the phone. And that person now had to prove they were not driving at that time. (It would be easy and not much of an extension of existing law to require cell phone companies to give to law enforcement a simple yes or no: was that phone in use at this time?) Perhaps police could occasionally ambush regular rides and cite all for more than 3 abreast. That could be a thousand dollar haul every time and might get those riders to change their habits. (Of course the lawyers would argue that all of the right hand two lines of bikes were legal and that therefor the police would have to identify the riders outside which would be a challenge with a group that would mix it up as soon as they are stopped. But municipalities could make laws that all parties of such groups are breaking the law.)

I know none of this is going to happen. We value freedom and liberty far more than we value the concept of being civilized or even life itself. (Look at our fatal car accidents. The freedom to go 10-15 miles over the speed limit is a far more precious value than the thousands of lives that freedom costs our country every year.)

Ben
C2K_Rider

Posts:168

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05/22/2013 01:13 PM
Unfortunatly it is far worse than cyclists "rolling stop signs." They are blowing them at full speed, not "rolling" them.

-I was cycling, and was only inches from being creamed by another cyclist who came through a stop sign on a slight descent, probably 25+mph. It was a 4-way stop. I had waited for two cars on the cross street to go and then it was my turn. I started going and all I heard was brakes beeing applied and a bike swerved around my front wheel. the guy was a total fooking idiot.

- I nearly got hit by a cyclist time-trialing on his aerobars. I was turning left at a 4-way stop. I saw him, but It was my turn and I turned. He came through the stop sign at full speed and swerved around me. What a total fooking idiot.

-I was in my truck ready to make a left turn with a green left arrow - meaning those coming from the opposite direction had a red light. A group of over 20 cyclist blew that red light while they turned right directly into my path (I had already started my turn) and a narrow lane, no shoulder. I honked at them and, being total fooking idiots, they flipped me off. What a bunch of total fooking idiots.

- while driving I was waiting at a red light. The turn lanes were green and I was maybe 2 seconds from getting a green. just then a cyclist on the cross street blew through his red light and directly into my path just as my light was turning gree. What a total fooking idiot. I layed on my horn on that one and I hoped I scared the $4it out of his fooking idiot ass.

- On the recent double century I did groups of riders were blowing through stop signs in residential areas - and there were cars at the intersection. I simply do not ride in groups of people I don't know. They just become brain dead while in groups.

The thing is, these are DAILY occurances in my area. I'd say 95% of cyclists totally ignore stop signs - don't even slow down for them - and many ignore red lights. It is completley insane. I have had far more dangerous close calls from other cyclists that cars these days.

When, exactly, did cyclists get a free ride to ignore all traffic laws. This is not just bending rules now and then - it is nearly universal total ignoring of traffic laws. It is really out of control now.

And yes, the actions of other, especially at this scale of disrgard, reflects on all cyclists. You may notice that cars often will not take their turn at a 4-way stop if there is a cyclist around - that's because they ASSUME the cyclist will blow the stop sign and they have to protect themselves from being involved in an accident by a stupid cyclist. One guy I met thinks this is a rational for blowing stop signs - car drivers expect cyclists to ignore the sign, so cyclists should feel free to ignore the signs!! what a total fooking idiot. And "policing our own?" Forget that. Every single cyclist that I have called out for doing something really, really stupid has simply berated me for pointing out to them they did something stupid. They don't want to hear it, and most likely are too stupid to understand the consequences of their actions anyway. They are just lazy, spoiled brats that insist they can do whatever they want, whenever they want and no one should ever hassle them about their stupidity.
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