34x40 fun?
Last Post 07/26/2017 05:06 AM by Cosmic Kid. 36 Replies.
Author Messages
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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06/25/2017 05:54 PM
So as said, long story short - the 34x40 worked beautifully until it broke. Would share some pics but photobucket's a pain momentarily. Did about 4 kms of 10% singletrack as part of an overall 12km climb. Then went on to do back of Grouse Mountain, rough rocky forest road, mixing it up with MTB crowd. Shifting was perfect but must have caught a rock somewhere, derailleur hanger broke off 2 km below top. Hiked up rest on one of the ski runs and took the bike down on Gondola. Getting it fixed now and hopefully this was a fluke and won't repeat for Hellracer. Other than the break the setup seemed to work perfectly. That was one rough trail.

[URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/20170623_083041_zpsadqm0qtu.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/20170623_103013_zpshfspupi8.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/20170623_084648_zpsn3r45et3.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/20170623_113538_zpserqjy96t.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/20170623_114850_zpskxwihu6c.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/20170623_115254_zps3ccmcaor.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/20170623_124740_zpshvmkobdl.jpg.html][/URL]
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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06/25/2017 07:11 PM
Bummer about the hanger.....but looks like it was a great ride until then!
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:1474

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06/26/2017 07:28 AM
Beautiful location.
Sorry for your mechanical. Is the issue cog too big for derailleur?
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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06/26/2017 10:29 AM
I'll need to investigate. Nothing apparent in shifting but perhaps the 40 cog puts hanger under stress. Either way, the 40 was no luxury on steepest pitches so I may have to risk it. Between fresh hanger and a spare one that'll come along just in case, that should hopefully cover it.





There's a challenge who can make it up first 4kms of Sethon Portage without debiking. It's that kind of climb.
longslowdistance

Posts:1474

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06/26/2017 10:55 AM
Is a smaller inner chain ring an option?
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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06/26/2017 10:56 AM
What was the RD again? I seem to recall it was a Tiagra?
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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06/26/2017 10:59 AM
Yes, Tiagra.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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06/26/2017 02:14 PM
Was it a SGS or GS RD?
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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06/26/2017 08:33 PM
You got me there CK. what's diff between the two?
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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06/26/2017 08:35 PM
SGS is long cage, GS is mid-cage, SS is short cage.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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06/26/2017 08:47 PM
It's a long cage.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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06/26/2017 09:30 PM
From what I can tell, Tiagra is only available in 2 cage lengths.....GS (mid-cage) and SS (short cage). I have nor found any Tiagra SGS (long cage) available. The max rear cog for a GS is 34T when used on a compact. using a 40T rear cog probably pushed it too far.

You may need to go to a 105 SGS RD.....but those are 11 spd, which won't work with a 10 spd cassette, so you'll need to find an older 10 spd 105 SGS RD.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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06/26/2017 10:06 PM
No it was a long cage for sure. 4500 model had SGS version. Still see it on eBay.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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06/27/2017 07:35 AM
I'm pretty sure that listing is wrong, OC.....I can't find any references in Shimano literature to a 4500 SGS RD. Also, the 4500 series was 9 spd (not that it matters since 9 spd was interchangeable with 8 & 10 spds).

See 2 pdf's below....no mention of an SGS.

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-4500-2588.pdf

http://fish.shimano-eu.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/TIAGRA/RD-4500/SI_5VX0A_En_v1_m56577569830607047.pdf

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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06/27/2017 08:13 AM
Thanks CK . Curious if that is a med cage it seems very long. I will investigate.

Sounds like mix and match with 10sp Mtb long cage is not an option?
longslowdistance

Posts:1474

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06/27/2017 08:23 AM
Not with Shimano - unless you go the di2 route, which I think is only 11 speed. $$$, but looks super slick, I hope I can try it someday.
With SRAM, mtb derailleurs are compatible with road shifters. So an option is to pony up for a right hand Sram 10 speed brifter and rear derailleur. If they have 2 x 10 stuff that works with 40 t cog.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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06/27/2017 08:47 AM
Yeah, 10 spd MTB stuff form Shimano used a different pull ratio, IIRC. Just did a very quick search for 105 SGS and seems to be the same issue, SS & GS versions only.

However, now that I think about it.....you might be able to frankenbike some stuff together. Specifically, use a 9 spd MTB RD, which, IIRC, was compatible with 9 speed road shifters. 9 speed and 10 speed road stuff was interchangeable, so using the old math theorem If A=B and B= C, then A = C, you should be able to run 10 spd road shifters with a 9 spd MTB RD long cage and get it to work.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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06/27/2017 08:52 AM
Confirmed.....you can use a 9 spd Shimano MTB rear derailleur with 10 speed road STI shifters and have it work.

http://www.velonews.com/2011/01/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-with-lennard-zinn-brake-questions-compatibility-and-new-years-feedback_155209

Think that will be your best option. I cannot find any Shimano road RD that will take a 40T rear cog.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:1474

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06/27/2017 09:12 AM
There still is the issue of the mtb rear derailleur accepting a 40t cog rather than max 36t. I think my post was off because of this same issue.
If OC is looking for an excuse to go to 11 speed, this might be a good time.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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06/27/2017 10:02 AM
Hmmmm....didn't check that. So only 11 spd RD's will "officially" work with a 40T rear?
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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06/27/2017 10:46 AM
Thoughts on this? Realizing only now that this was part of setup, and in fact this is part that broke (sorry, this is well outside my bike tech nerd range):

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/derailleur-optimization/products/roadlink

And yes, is does say that with 11-40 maximum front teeth difference support is 10 so I am outside that range.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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06/27/2017 01:28 PM
Seems like a viable solution....assuming you can live with the 10T differential up front.....so 44 / 34 to keep your 34x40 low gear option.

If you can live with 34x36, the 9 spd MTB solution seem like the easiest solution, though....and you could probably stretch it to a 38 (if they make such a combo).
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Gonzo Cyclist

Posts:568

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07/08/2017 11:12 AM
a buddy used a mix of Ultegra, and XT RD, using an XT 11-42 cassette on a drop bar adventure bike, works very well
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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07/10/2017 11:20 AM
Thanks Gonzo. Given the short time frame I ended up rehabilitating the setup as is with roadlink derailleur extender. Worked perfectly for 240kms on the toughest terrain I have ever ridden. 15 hour ride (12 hour moving time), close to 150 kms of gravel, steep pitches, close to 5,000 m elevation, heat, forest fire smoke, you name it. Legs are fine, but my brain got fried, shaken and stirred. One one of the downhills I think I felt it bang against my skull. This was a journey to the edge of heat exhaustion and stubbornness. Must have gone through like 30 water bottles and a bunch of cokes. Would not have been possible without SAG support. 8 of 9 from team finished (about 30 overall at start; all hardcore), with one abandon due to forest smoke induced asthma. Ride report to follow sometime. For those on FB, see my page.

Oh and since the weekend involved a double purpose I ended driving about 1600 kms (detours around forest fires) to watch my kids soccer team become provincial champions. Two nights with only 4hrs sleep before and after the ride. I need a vacation.
79pmooney

Posts:1735

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07/10/2017 01:17 PM
Wow! Makes my Cycle Oregon challenge - doing it fix gear including the ~30 miles of gravel - look like a walk in the park. Spread out over 7 days to go 3 times as far and twice the elevation. Enough good sleep is easily done. I do hope I never see the brain frying, shaking and stirring. Not good for this brain at all, not with my LBS. (No, not the local bike shop. No, I've got NFL style Loose Brain Syndrome.)

Congrats, OC! And good work getting the bike dialed in. May mine serve me as well in 9 weeks.

Ben
longslowdistance

Posts:1474

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07/10/2017 01:59 PM
Wow, great story. Glad the gear issue got solved.
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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07/10/2017 02:31 PM
I am not sure it was solved or dialed in but it seemed to hold up fine.

Definitely learned that when your riding lose sand and gravel on 32mm tires, there's no amount of gearing that will save you. You simply lose to much momentum in 34x40, better off using the 32 and trying to keep forward speed and balance but traction is still limiting factor. Need MTB size tires.

But on 20% hardpack the 34x40 is just dandy to spin it out to top and in 95% of situations you can keep riding.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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07/10/2017 03:13 PM
Posted By Orange Crush on 07/10/2017 11:20 AM
Thanks Gonzo. Given the short time frame I ended up rehabilitating the setup as is with roadlink derailleur extender. Worked perfectly for 240kms on the toughest terrain I have ever ridden. 15 hour ride (12 hour moving time), close to 150 kms of gravel, steep pitches, close to 5,000 m elevation, heat, forest fire smoke, you name it. Legs are fine, but my brain got fried, shaken and stirred. One one of the downhills I think I felt it bang against my skull. This was a journey to the edge of heat exhaustion and stubbornness. Must have gone through like 30 water bottles and a bunch of cokes. Would not have been possible without SAG support. 8 of 9 from team finished (about 30 overall at start; all hardcore), with one abandon due to forest smoke induced asthma. Ride report to follow sometime. For those on FB, see my page.

Oh and since the weekend involved a double purpose I ended driving about 1600 kms (detours around forest fires) to watch my kids soccer team become provincial champions. Two nights with only 4hrs sleep before and after the ride. I need a vacation.


Nothing about that sounds appealing....
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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07/10/2017 06:01 PM
It beats running for even just 5 minutes CK :-)

This in an older writeup from second year it was run, has some cool pics that tell story of what the ride is about.

http://www.7meshinc.com/7messages/the-ridden-word/the-hellracer-250/
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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07/10/2017 09:14 PM
Hey, don't look at me to defend running....I only do it so I can still participate in a competitive sport.

On that note, set a PR last weekend in Muncie for a Half-Ironman by 12 min....went 4:47:10. Absolutely CRUSHED the bike, going 2:19 for 56 miles (24.1 avg) and then still ran my best ever run leg, going 1:41 (7:47 / mile pace). My previous best had been ~1:50 for the run.

Bike course was soooo fast, I was just flying. Ironically, I only ended up 5th in my AG, despite the new personal best. Some fast dudes were out there!
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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07/11/2017 10:55 AM
There's always cyclocross CK - the mud is soft; but I guess in your neck of woods its snow and ice :-)

The experienced Tri dude in our midst said Hellracer was far harder than any Ironman he'd ever done.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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07/11/2017 12:02 PM
I hate the cold.....
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Gonzo Cyclist

Posts:568

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07/11/2017 01:26 PM
Wow OC, that was one of those epics for sure!!

Was it one of those days, highs, lows, at one point, your selling all of your bikes, and quitting for good, then you hit the end, and your like, "That was Great!" ;-)
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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07/11/2017 01:36 PM
You nailed it Gonzo.

The shift back to positive happened during ride triggered by change from heat exhaustion to feeling much better once hitting the relatively cool temperatures of the alpine. Gummie bears supplied from SAG also helped. And then of course there was the glorious high-speed 10km downhill at 10% before hitting town.
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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07/17/2017 06:47 PM
Test

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=<0B8jEhxGA94cfRTRDV2NRT1F2dVE>

(fail) Anyone know if is possible to share from google photos or google drive here and what hocus pocus code is needed?
Orange Crush

Posts:1996

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07/17/2017 09:54 PM
Test 2

Cosmic Kid

Posts:2146

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07/26/2017 05:06 AM
Zinn just published a Q&A on Tiagra...looks like 34t is the max cog it is approved for. So my guess is the 40 on the original set-up overloaded it and caused the problem. Sounds like that little hanger doodad did the trick for you.

http://www.velonews.com/2017/07/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-big-can-go-shimano-rear-derailleur_444753
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!


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