Saw the new TRP hydraulic disc brakes
Last Post 10/05/2013 10:02 PM by Kenny Gonzales. 22 Replies.
Author Messages
Dale

Posts:435

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09/17/2013 03:14 PM
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Dale

Posts:435

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09/17/2013 03:16 PM
Saw these at this weekends cross race

http://www.trpbrakes.com/article_detail.php?aid=27

Really nice and SOOO much better than the forking ugly Sram tower of hydraulic fluid levers

Still not ready to buy a new bike and several wheels to get disc but this is a real clean system.
Ride On

Posts:408

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09/17/2013 03:23 PM
Interesting
ChinookPass

Posts:400

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09/17/2013 04:20 PM
those have been on my "want" list for awhile.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:973

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09/17/2013 04:46 PM
You at Interbike? Pics of the new Lemonds, please!!!
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:435

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09/17/2013 05:13 PM
Nah, skipping Interbike this year. By the time it rolls around I've seen everybody I need to see and have loads of other more productive stuff to do for a week. As a bike geek I really love the show but as a rep I need to allocate my time to productive stuff. Would have loved to signed up to race Crossvegas even though I'd have gotten slaughtered.
jacques_anquetil

Posts:199

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09/17/2013 07:38 PM
that is a brilliant method cable to hydraulic. The Paradox under stem method is kludgy, the SRAM levers fugly. Although the Shimano ones are big, they aren't as hideous.

these ones kill them all.
Oldfart

Posts:433

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09/17/2013 11:54 PM
Kind of pointless if you ask me. You still end up with a cable that will need frequent replacement in the mud season. A friend of mine is racing a Giant TCX with the red hydraulic brakes. He really likes them. Says he can brake later than other riders so he says he's faster because of it. He won his first race and got 8 th at star crossed I think in masters 4.
79pmooney

Posts:1012

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09/18/2013 02:50 AM
Andy, I see a real plus of having cables leave the brifters, a reason that is as old as cycling that no one ever talks about. Any bike that is ridden on pavement may well crash on that same pavement. And when that happens, it is common to trash the downside lever/brifter. I call a system where that part isn't ridiculously expensive or hard to replace good real world engineering. (I have the same issue with absurdly expensive rear derailleurs. And pedals too precious to scrape?)

Ben
Cosmic Kid

Posts:973

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09/18/2013 10:12 AM
Traditionally, cable actuated hydraulic discs have performed like schitt. Rock Shox tried it back in the day, among others. Horrible lever feel and adjust was damn near impossible.

Seems like it would be the "best of both worlds", but in reality it has been a compromise on both.

That said, technology has improved since then so hopefully these TRP brakes feel and perform well. Time will tell, I guess.....but if there is concern about fluid overheating in full-hydraulics, I gotta imagine that it would be much worse with cable-actuatued hydraulics.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
ChinookPass

Posts:400

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09/18/2013 12:09 PM
I found this review though I'm not familiar with bikerumors. It's not clear if there is anything new here to deal with the heat. Velo did a short review a few months ago too:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/17...reak-down/

Heat Management

As one of the biggest concerns with hydraulic or mechanical road disc brakes is heat management, TRP devised a series of tests to push the HYRD and the Spyre to their limits and then some. In the switchback test, brakes are cycled on and off in 10 second intervals for 88 cycles with 6kg of lever force at 25kph. Testing resulted in an average of 761 watts with a peak in excess of 1000 watts causing the rotor to heat to over 900 degrees f. At these temperatures, the paint on the backing of the brake pads would flake off, but the brakes continued to function.

The second test was termed the scared rider test which involved 10 minutes of continuous lever pull at 3kg of force with the wheel again traveling at 25 kph. This is to simulate exactly what it sounds like – a rider terrified of a steep descent, dragging the brake the whole way down. Again, both brakes passed their testing according to TRP who was quick to point out that the testing did not include the air cooling effect of riding the brakes in normal conditions – as the ambient air rushing over the calipers and rotors would further cool the brakes.

While they wouldn’t say who, TRP mentioned that they purchase their mineral oil from the same source as another famous brake manufacturer, we think you can figure it out. Likewise, TRP pointed out that at those extreme temperatures, glazing of the pads becomes a much bigger issue than the fluid itself boiling. TRP hasn’t set a weight limit on the brakes yet, but they are currently testing both brakes with tandems to guarantee they are adequate. When asked about rotor size, TRP recommended that road riders always use a 160mm rotor in front, but can get away with a 140mm in the rear. In cyclocross-only applications, you should be fine with two 140s.
Oldfart

Posts:433

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09/18/2013 03:24 PM
It is a concern Ben. But my point, poorly articulated, was that one will need a frame and fork that will take a disc caliper plus at the very least new hubs as well as the brakes. Makes much more sense to simply buy an entire new bike with the new bits rather than the other way. You can buy new levers for mountain bike master cylinder/levers so that should not be an issue.

One thing Shimano has been doing for a couple years for mountain bike brakes is their Icetech features. Cooling fins on the brake pads, steel rotors that sandwich an aluminum centre and now finned rotors as well. The XT and XTR brakes work very very well and use mineral oil as the fluid. One finger is all I use on steep Whistler trails and I haven't felt like I was lacking braking power too often. I use a 180 and 160 rotors but I don't weigh much at 142 or so. I ride some silly stuff where I am on the brakes for most of the descent. These are 20-30 percent grades with drops that may last 20 30 minutes without much let up. I would think that road or cross requirements will not be the same as for off road. Maybe road with higher speeds will have more concern with heat? Moto GP bikes have way more brake than motocross bikes.

I remember the Rockshox and other mechanical hydraulic brakes. That was a while ago but they were crappy. Set up my Zipp wheels and Avid Shorty Ultimate brakes last night. What a pain in the petooty. And they still squeak and squawk.
79pmooney

Posts:1012

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09/18/2013 05:26 PM
But, Andy, can you crash and trash one of these levers for under $200? A routine crash, skinned knee, torn glove and ripped handlebar tape should not cost that much. That is what I see as the plus of a cable operated system. $30 Tektro levers would work just fine. (Of course, no brifter, but DTs still work and never get trashed in crashed.)

Ben
Oldfart

Posts:433

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09/18/2013 07:11 PM
Just the brake lever? For a mountain bike yes. There were all kinds of aftermarket lever blades available for Shimano, SRAM/Avid and others for way less than $200. I believe that Shimano do list small parts like just lever blades as being available. Last time I used downtube shifters I had been used to brifters and my fingers brushed the spokes. No damage but there is absolutely no way i would ever use dt shifters ever again. I don't know what the Tektro mechanically actuated hydraulic system works but I can't imagine it will be better than full hydraulic with no real benefit other than you already own some parts.
longslowdistance

Posts:578

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09/18/2013 07:37 PM
I'm going to pull the trigger and report back soon.
79pmooney

Posts:1012

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09/18/2013 09:34 PM
I'm talking the whole assembly, Andy. I've seen enough trashed brake levers, bodies, etc. to consider all of the unit expendable. (I haven't priced brifter assemblies but I am guessing virtuallly all are more than the $30-80 of a good old-school pair of aero brake lever assemblies.

I was under the impression from j-a's post that these brakes could be used with conventional cable brake levers actuating a hydraulic system so the Tektros I mentioned that were simple cable only would work just fine. Now I realize I have no idea what "cable to hydraulic" means.

Ben
Oldfart

Posts:433

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09/19/2013 12:09 AM
Oh yeah Ben, a whole brifter costs your left nut. But the vast majority of folks who would buy the Tektro would still have a brifter. For a cross bike DT shifters would be particularly awful.
dkri

Posts:66

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09/19/2013 08:40 AM
At this point, dt shifters are an absolute non-starter in cross. Might as well ride single speed, you'd be at almost the same disadvantage.

This whole thing is headed toward dis-integration of the brake and shifter anyhow. Electronic shifting and hydraulic brakes. The relationship to the two will likely be that the brake pod is a piece of real estate on which the shifters go. See Cav's bike from this year's Tour. Hydro levers are less expensive than brifters (I had to replace a brifter from a crash last year - $$), so at least that's a plus.

My pit bike still has BB7s, which, to be honest, stink on a cross bike. I find them to be bad enough that my bs meter screams when anyone proclaims how much better they are than cantis. Maybe if you're using absolute crap cantis like Shorty 4s or something else, but Shorty Ultimates blow BB7s away if you ask me. I'd like to try these new TRP deals.
formerly dkri
Gonzo Cyclist

Posts:196

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10/04/2013 12:20 PM
These are pretty good, I just built up a Pivot Vault cross bike for a client, these work very well, nice and crisp, and they don't look much larger than traditional hydro calipers. The set up was very simple, no jacking with hydro hoses, etc....
I'll have to get pics of this bike for you all, pretty nice, about 17lbs with tubes, etc...
a buddy of mine just built a Cannondale with SRAM hydro brakes, he said it was 2lbs heavier than his caliper brake Cannondale cross, that is crazy
dkri, if you don't like the BB7's, check out the Shimano CX75's, I have these on a single speed MTB, and a prototype 650b bike, these work far better than the BB7's
Oldfart

Posts:433

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10/04/2013 04:17 PM
Gonzo: Are they an open system or closed? The literature didn't say. I assume open because closed would be truly stupid. Some of the early mountain bike discs were closed.

I have seen the SRAM hydraulic kit first hand now. The master cylinder end does not look as bulky as in photos. And I did not realize that SRAM has a couple levels of hydraulic road discs. I have ordered a Giant TCX 1 with the Force(?) SRAM stuff. I like how the Giant cross bike uses mountain width drops and a 15 mm through axle on the front. I can use my 29er wheels on it if I wish.

Stoked. The Steed Cycles riders are on these bikes and have had great success racing this fall on them. They all like them a lot and say the brakes are way better than rim brakes. Kim Steed set his up with Red and built wheels on DT240 hubs and ENVE 29er tubular rims. Totally hot bike.

longslowdistance

Posts:578

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10/04/2013 08:00 PM
Sorry I missed this. I just started another thread on these brakes, as I now have one one my bike.
Oldfart

Posts:433

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10/05/2013 12:13 PM
Posted By Kenny Gonzales on 10/04/2013 12:20 PM
These are pretty good, I just built up a Pivot Vault cross bike for a client, these work very well, nice and crisp, and they don't look much larger than traditional hydro calipers. The set up was very simple, no jacking with hydro hoses, etc....
I'll have to get pics of this bike for you all, pretty nice, about 17lbs with tubes, etc...
a buddy of mine just built a Cannondale with SRAM hydro brakes, he said it was 2lbs heavier than his caliper brake Cannondale cross, that is crazy
dkri, if you don't like the BB7's, check out the Shimano CX75's, I have these on a single speed MTB, and a prototype 650b bike, these work far better than the BB7's


I think I a call bs on two pounds more. I think there is weight penalty but two pounds sounds like something more than just the brake change.
Gonzo Cyclist

Posts:196

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10/05/2013 10:02 PM
eh, could be old fart, just repeating what he told me, he works in bike shop, and has access to a scale, could have been something more, tubes vs. tubeless?
Not sure if they are closed or open, I think closed?
The SRAM offering looks pretty good, heard about one issue of rattling levers? Who knows, I think this is pretty cool with the evolution of road discs, Shimano stuff looks really nice, but you just have to go with Di2


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