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Waiting for th yellow jersey
Last Post 07/28/2017 08:38 AM by Cosmic Kid. 29 Replies.
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79pmooney

Posts:1726

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07/11/2017 02:54 PM
The unwritten rule that you don't attack and even wit when the yellow jersey (or another elite rider - sometimes) has a flat or mechanical.

http://www.velonews.com/2017/07/commentary/the-tour-has-been-yellow-fleeced-by-unwritten-rules_443430

I can see flats.  Flats happen.  But even then, sturdier tires get fewer flats.  Waiting for someone who chose to ride lighter rubber?

But mechanicals, that one bothers me on two counts.  1) it is the job of the mechanic and the suppliers to provide TdF winning equipment.  If they do not do this, should the rest of the peloton and especially those high on the GC pay?  2) not slowing for mechanicals would have a beneficial effect far beyond pro racing.  Manufacturers would have to change their priorities.  Lighter, more gears, the whiz you just have to have would take a back seat to more prosaic gear that failed less often.  (And coaching would stress the importance of riding within the gear.  Funny, we all did that 40 years ago.  If you threw a chain.l no one was slowing.  (Eddie Merckx didn't miss a beat when Fuentes had his shifting issues in the '71 Giro (The movie "Stars and Bottle Carriers").

It gratifies me that the rider who had a real mechanical that wasn't his or his mechanic's error won Sunday.  (Uran had his RD kicked by Tony Martin when he crashed with Porte.  Rode the last 23 km on an 11.  He did get a rolling "fix' from neutral support, so no, he did not stop and in fact got a push for a good ways while it was worked on.)

Think about how we would gain if it were common knowledge that no one would wait and would in fact attack at Froome's flat on the last HC.  Tire manufacturers would be looking for the next flat barrier that rolled well.  We common folk win!

Another point - waiting for either  a flat or mechanical on probably the deepest funded cycling team ever?  A Continental team with a far lower budget, access only to tires a full step down and likewise the rest of their gear should never be obliged to pass the opportunity to shine when the unobtainable fails.

Ben
Orange Crush

Posts:1982

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07/11/2017 03:50 PM
The commentary is spot on, I actually just posted it on the Velonews forumite FB page.

Waiting for yellow jersey is hogwash, or as the commentary puts it more elegantly the "elastic subjectivity of circumstance". An F1 race continues when it's leader crashes or has a mechanical.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2141

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07/11/2017 04:29 PM
Psssst.....it was Dan Martin, not Tony Martin.



Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:1726

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07/11/2017 06:19 PM
CK, I know that but my fingers didn't get the message.
Red Tornado

Posts:147

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07/11/2017 07:59 PM
Agree with these comments. Also, to play the conspiracy theorist.... Let's say the other contenders somehow manage to put Froome on the ropes later in the Tour. No problem, he can experience a "mechanical" or require a bike change. Everybody sits up out of respect for the yellow jersey, Froome re-joins and it's groupetto compatto again. If Froome/DS/Brailsford are smart about it, they could play this card at least once (maybe 2X?) in the remaining days and get away with it.
I'm not saying that has or will happen, but if I and others can think of it, what about Sky? Kind of an under-handed marginal gain.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2141

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07/11/2017 08:04 PM
RT, Froome essentially did that last year when he faked a nature break, forcing the others to wait and allowing his teammate, Stannard, to catch back on after crashing.

That is the strongest argument for chucking this idea of waiting....once it starts being used as a tactical advantage, the idea of sportsmanship is blown.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
longslowdistance

Posts:1468

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07/11/2017 08:10 PM
Following this thread with interest.
Just throwing this log on the discussion fire:
Remember the crowds forcing moto full stop running with his broken bike fiasco last year? What if someone was up the road ahead of him?
Red Tornado

Posts:147

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07/11/2017 08:12 PM
No one will stop for the green/polka-dot/white jersey as far as I know. Maybe if they respect the yellow, they should respect the others, too. Treat everyone equally.
As mentioned here, in other forms of racing the leader is not shown this courtesy. Not even in mountain biking. I guess if something unfortunate happens, whether your fault or not, that's racin'. Again, everyone is treated equally.
Something to think about though, I wouldn't want to be the guy that everyone says won the Tour because so-and-so had a mechanical or crashed.
Then again, if you have a mechanical, that's between you and the team. The other riders don't have to pay for a mistake/problem they didn't cause. If you crash on your own, well too bad take a better line next time or ride farther away from the spectators (Lance). The only grey area I can see is if someone takes you down. Then again, that's racin'. Everyone gets treated equally and we don't have to worry about the correct application of a gentlemen's agreement that isn't always honored. Basically, I'm agreeing with ya'll, just thinking it through on my keyboard.
SideBySide

Posts:427

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07/11/2017 10:25 PM
I can see the nature break thing, who would want to be behind him if he decided to go at the front. I think mechanicals should be free game.
79pmooney

Posts:1726

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07/12/2017 12:55 AM
But taking a nature break so a teammate can get back on? No. If you want to pee while you wait for your teammate, fine, but don't expect everyone else to wait. When this starts becoming part of the marginal gains, it has gone well outside a gentleman's agreement.

Ben
Red Tornado

Posts:147

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07/12/2017 10:01 AM
Posted By 79 pmooney on 07/12/2017 12:55 AM
But taking a nature break so a teammate can get back on? No. If you want to pee while you wait for your teammate, fine, but don't expect everyone else to wait. When this starts becoming part of the marginal gains, it has gone well outside a gentleman's agreement.

Ben


+1
Gonzo Cyclist

Posts:568

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07/12/2017 10:19 AM
The pee break last year was BS.....

So, I'm thinking Ben, what about Contador's controversial attack during Andy's mis-ship?
To me, that was not an attack during a mechanical, it was an attack, and poor Andy just could not shift gears on his bike when he tried to counter attack.

It used to be a gentleman's agreement not to attack the yellow during a mechanical, it's out of respect, and I imagine if you won, you would want to have won it outright, not due to someone else's misfortune.
This new generation though, that seems to be changing, it's every man for himself, and so sorry for your mis-hap, no, I'm not sorry!! Bye!
79pmooney

Posts:1726

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07/12/2017 10:33 AM
Gonzo, as I remember it, Schleck attacked Contador like this was his chance to break Contador and cement the Tour. Contador was just starting to answer when Schleck threw his chain. In a duel are you expected to hold your fire when the other guy draws first but his firing pin jams?

I saw that as not verly noble by Contador, but Schleck really needed to have his house in order if he was going to make the move he did.

Ben
Gonzo Cyclist

Posts:568

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07/12/2017 10:42 AM
ah, that's right, I recall the whole scenario now. Schleck started the hostilities, but did not like the outcome
Nick A

Posts:523

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07/12/2017 02:50 PM
I guess, it's like anything. Everything in moderation. It can get ridiculous, but within reason, I love the "unwritten rules". If most baseball players weren't such knuckle heads, I'd be a bigger fan. But that's the other sport I know a little about (less than cycling) with lots of unwritten rules. For example, showing up a pitcher, getting plunked, a big or small strike zone, so long as it's consistent, etc., etc.

Nick
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