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The 2021 Tour de France thread (spoilers!)
Last Post 07/21/2021 10:56 AM by Orange Crush. 156 Replies.
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Dale

Posts:1533

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07/16/2021 08:54 PM
Zig-zagging to shake the guy off your wheel.
Guaranteed to work 0% of the time but they (we) keep trying.

IIRR that's one definition of insanity.
mondonico

Posts:137

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07/16/2021 09:44 PM
See that's what I don't understand about doing it ten miles out when chasing a single rider. I would think you want riders on your wheel to work together to reel the rider in. First loser is first loser no matter how it works out. Take a chance to do something career changing.
79pmooney

Posts:2816

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07/16/2021 10:11 PM
The flip side of this. Riding like this happens. Smart riders sometimes gamble on it happening. Sometimes that gamble pays off.

Edit: there was an infamous stage a few years back where a rider who'd tanked the day before gambled that he could gain enough time in the first two hills and that the three podium sitting teams would infight and not successfully use the 20 miles of flat to chase him down.  I was watching that stage and said to my table mate that the DS's of the podium sitters needed to each radio their leader and instruct the team to work the other two in a massive TTT.  I said this while those opening climbs were happening.

But no.  On the flat, one or two strong worker for one team would power for long pulls, take two minutes out of the lead, pull off and everyone would sit up and take a breath.  Meanwhile the solo leader was just riding to his power meter (or maybe it was heart rate), keep the needle on high and take back the lost time over and over again.  Went into the final big climb with the margin he needed.  Won him a Tour.  (Well, until a positive for testosterone came back.)

I'm not a fan of doping at all.  But on that stage, the three podium sitting teams didn't deserve the placed they achieved in Paris.  Floyd Landis correctly gambled that they would not get their **** together.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3729

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07/17/2021 07:44 AM
Slovenia suddenly produces dominant racers. Sure, why not


This is why I have questions….we have seen in the past that when one country rises to the top of the sport, there are questionable methods behind it. Italy in the 90’s, the US in the 00’s, GB in the teens….now in the 20’s, Slovenia (a country with zero cycling background) has produced the best 2 riders in the world (and whose national champ has won 2 stages so far).

Throw in UAE’s questionable management, Pog’s dominant performance, etc and it is reasonable to be suspicious.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3729

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07/17/2021 07:50 AM
First loser is first loser no matter how it works out.


Right….so they are gambling on someone else to be the sucker and do the work. If they do the work, they lose. If no one does the work, they lose. So hope someone else is willing to do it.

Couple years ago I did a training crit….got in a 3 man break and we were gone. I knew both of those guys would wax me in the sprint, so I had 3rd no matter what. So I gambled…on the last lap, I let a gap open to one of the guys and sat up. Other guy ( who had one the week before) kept wanting me to pull…”Look, if I do that, I get third. You’ll both beat me in the sprint. If you want the win, you better chase. I’m third either way”. So he chased, we caught the other guy and I ended up 2nd because I rolled the dice on someone else doing the work.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3751

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07/17/2021 10:17 AM
Luxembourg population 650000 managed to produce a whole bunch of top end racers all that one in days of Schlecks. To the degree the dimwit idea of of a Lux team got started. Slovenia does have a strong cycling background although not a history of pro cycling. Slovenia sits next to Italy that region is fairly cycling mad and their capital was an early adopter of Scandinavia/ Dutch style cycling infrastructure which is rare in that neck of the woods. It’s a prime cycling destination.
Orange Crush

Posts:3751

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07/17/2021 01:18 PM
My suspicions on Slovenia revolve around Aderlass connections and questionable managers (noting that Roglic left that circle pretty quick but others are still within it) but the notions of it being a small country with no cycling history don't have any traction (hog wash). Time will tell.

Four Danes in the iTT top 10 today is possibly also some food for thought.

Today was warmer and Pog underperformed similar to how he underperformed in their nationals iTT rocking on that bike and constantly looking up and down, never comfortable.

The WTF moment of the day was Bilbao with full radio equipment in hand trying to put it back on his back while negotiating a corner.
huckleberry

Posts:700

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07/17/2021 01:47 PM
I remember when Lance had everyone making excuses for him also ; )

But, but...
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3729

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07/17/2021 02:17 PM
It is not just that Slovenia is a small country w/ little background in professional cycling….that is just one element. But when such a country is suddenly at the top of the sport, combined with questionable management, refusal to hold open press conferences, having riders posting times that beat doped riders up climbs, etc

It is a holistic view of all these things that makes me go “Hmmmm…I think I have seen this movie before”

And yes, Aderlass is absolutely part of that puzzle. I had forgotten to mention that earlier.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3751

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07/17/2021 02:33 PM
Posted By christopher behrens on 07/17/2021 01:47 PM
I remember when Lance had everyone making excuses for him also ; )

But, but...


They’re not excuses. I simply tend to stick to the facts. The facts are the Aderlass connection and questionable managers. A possible line of evidence is dominance. The rest is hearsay and conspiracy theories. The cycling audience is good at those, maybe for good reason. The cycling background question could be flipped around, why did a country with a pretty strong cycling culture not produce any top end racers in the past? Why has a country like Belgium with a massive pro racing pedigree not produced a Tour de France competitor for decades? Typically these questions are answered by lack of opportunity or examples for kids being drawn to the sport.
Orange Crush

Posts:3751

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07/17/2021 03:52 PM
BTW last time we had a time gap this big was 2024, Nibali, he had over 7 minutes on number 2 by the time they got to Paris.

It was when top contenders crashed out. Sounds familiar.
79pmooney

Posts:2816

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07/17/2021 05:34 PM
Posted By Orange Crush on 07/17/2021 03:52 PM
BTW last time we had a time gap this big was 2024, Nibali, he had over 7 minutes on number 2 by the time they got to Paris.

It was when top contenders crashed out. Sounds familiar.
I slept well last night but I thought I set the alarm for six hours, not six years!

mondonico

Posts:137

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07/17/2021 08:12 PM
So my belief is next year they bring back the TTT to try and even out the tour.
mondonico

Posts:137

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07/17/2021 08:16 PM
Went right over my head first time I read your post. Good catch. Mooney
Orange Crush

Posts:3751

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07/18/2021 12:23 PM
Haha yes 2014 Ben.

Van Aert mountain goat, time trialist, sprinter. A decimated JV had a better Tour than last year.
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