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Worlds - who do you have
Last Post 10/26/2021 11:15 AM by Orange Crush. 71 Replies.
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longslowdistance

Posts:2468

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09/26/2021 09:31 PM
Or he could have been a protected rider. WVO just wasn’t up for 260k, maybe left it on the road in Britain as OC suggested. Evenpoel might have contended but again that’s an hour too long for many younger talents. These speculations may not matter as JA was brilliant today.
The post race interviews are great stuff.
longslowdistance

Posts:2468

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09/26/2021 09:31 PM
Sorry double post
eurochien

Posts:139

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09/27/2021 04:49 PM
Interesting observation, not substantiated by any scientific data, but in my experience, French cyclists rely more on instinct than team directors' instructions, and have done so for a long time. Virenque, like him or loathe him, was like that, Voeckler was like that and now that he's the French team boss, he barged in a post-race interview to hug Alaphilippe and excitedly told him "see, instinct!!" (as in, "I told you to follow your instinct"). It's a throwback method, and many times it fails but when it suceeds it's got a special flavor.
longslowdistance

Posts:2468

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09/27/2021 06:24 PM
Yes! Racing without radios is better for Jazzmen like JA than robotically perfect Classical players who are watching their power meters and following the commands of their conductors via radio (baton equivalent). I love classical and jazz music. I love improvised/jazz cycling way more. Bravo JA. If the UCi would ban radios, or limit to safety instructions only, racing would be more entertaining and riders with panache like JA might win more races, too.
Orange Crush

Posts:3660

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09/27/2021 08:15 PM
I’d observe that in absence of a radio JA dropped back to team car to receive instructions from Voeckler. This is when Voeckler told him to ride on instinct as opposed to riding defensively and set up Senechal for sprint (the supposed French number 1 rider). The instruction from Voeckler to JA was actually given closer to finish than UCI regulation allowed. Voeckler risked a fine. A lot of planning actually went into this: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/voeckler-i-told-alaphilippe-to-follow-his-instincts-at-world-championships/

So yes to panache but I doubt radios have much to do with it. JA always rides like that (JA doing JA things as Lefevere puts it) even when there’s radios albeit lessso in past year due to pressure of rainbow jersey. To me the question is solidly on panache versus guys staring at their power meters afraid to over extend themselves. The cyclocross guys which includes JA have no such reservations.
longslowdistance

Posts:2468

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09/27/2021 08:37 PM
Good counterpoint. Regardless, vive riders going by feel and improv. It's a great sport, and great entertainment. I vote for both.

Not sure I agree about the relative import of radios. With radios, Evenepoel would have been called off way earlier in the late stages, and also he would have not bothered with some of the not really serious breakaways that he joined and helped drive, burning matches right and left.
Orange Crush

Posts:3660

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09/27/2021 09:05 PM
Again don’t think radios mattered much in this. The key issue is that van Aert signaled way too late that he wasn’t good. VDP made that same call much earlier with 41 to go and gave van Baarle the nod. No radio needed. The main influence of no radios was very apparent, up until very close to finish JA was unaware of big gap he had and stayed nervous. Then at some point a moto put gaps on a sheet of paper and it finally dawned on him.

Speaking about panache, van Baarle was unable to walk normal up until three weeks ago after Spain crash. Getting silver is huge.
79pmooney

Posts:2779

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09/27/2021 10:23 PM
OC, was Evenepoel doing all he did thinking he was softening up the field for van Aert?
Orange Crush

Posts:3660

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09/27/2021 10:56 PM
Yes that was the game plan. Evenepoel did exactly what he was told to do. But it only a good plan if your leader had the legs to finish it off and they had no plan B. Also everyone else knew the Belgian game plan although the French were the only ones smart enough to preempt it (per Voeckler interview).
Orange Crush

Posts:3660

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09/30/2021 09:29 AM
Haha,the knives are slowly coming out in Belgium.

First Remco with his criticism of Belgian tactics which falls in line with opinions given by other insiders (now on cyclingnews). Van Aert has since responded in kind. Those two won’t be seeing eye to eye for awhile. I can actually see a scenario where the Belgian coach purposely assigned Remco early tasks burning him Out so he could not become a distracting factor later in race. Of course that backfired if true.
79pmooney

Posts:2779

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09/30/2021 10:08 AM
I haven't yet seen van Aert's comments but Evenepoel gets to say what he wants. He was clearly right up there with Alaphilippe for having the legs and using them very effectively. Rode smart and to instructions to a "T". Was told specifically he was not allowed to go for the win.

Now, van Aert? If he had dropped out when the flag dropped six hours before the finish, nothing would have changed. (Well, as marked man #1, everything would have changed but my point is, what he did with his legs made zero difference.) If van Aert honestly didn't know he didn't have the legs, well, a humbling and costly learning opportunity. If he knew, Belgium's loss despite showing up with the deepest, strongest and best coached and disciplined team is on him.

Evenepoel gets to say what he wants. If van Aert doesn't simply shut up, then show up and demonstrate next year with his legs, heart and teamwork, he slides in my book.

The saving grace to all this is the winner was the one match to Evenepoel that day, rode just as hard and is a class act; a fully worthy World Champion. (I'd love to see Alaphilippe sacrifice himself at Lombardi to get Evenepoel the monument.)
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3642

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09/30/2021 11:39 AM
I can actually see a scenario where the Belgian coach purposely assigned Remco early tasks burning him


There is also a scenario where Remco said "Fine...I'll play the 'good teammate' and just set a really hard tempo for 15K to prevent anyone from attacking. What's that? Those tactics worked out perfectly for my trade team teammate? Huh....that's weird. "
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:3660

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09/30/2021 12:20 PM
Yup, Lefevere made an offhand comment about that immediately post-race. "Remco rode perfectly to set up JA".
Dale

Posts:1493

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09/30/2021 03:01 PM
Let the circular firing squad commence!
Orange Crush

Posts:3660

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10/04/2021 11:05 AM
Interesting documentary yesterday "going for gold" which followed Belgian national team at Olympics, Euro Champs and Worlds. It leaves some serious questions as to how coachable Evenepoel is. Completely goes against instructions on numerous occasions. The "niet rijden" sign they put in front of his nose (and which went fully ignored) was brilliant. So are the numerous frowns in the team car.
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