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TdF Stage 15
Last Post 07/22/2013 03:31 PM by Cosmic Kid. 29 Replies.
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jmdirt

Posts:678

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07/18/2013 10:37 AM
Interesting:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-releases-froomes-power-data
stronz

Posts:299

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07/18/2013 03:15 PM
fascinating article on the power data -- except one small thing. THERE'S NO DATA. what are the numbers that the French "expert" (there's an oxymoron) has decided are consistent with the athlete's normal profile? and what about the business that he's an exceptionally gifted athlete operating at the limits of human physiology. And that means he's NOT doping? alrightythen
Yo Mike

Posts:256

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07/18/2013 03:27 PM
Nope, no data, just opinions, supposedly based on the data?

Somewhere I saw it claimed that this expert said essentially the same thing about -7

Orange Crush

Posts:1161

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07/18/2013 03:28 PM
I don't think there's a problem with the expert, and the fact that Sky release some data is a step.

The problem is that the data is for 2011 (the year that Froome made his breakthrough) forward. The main question however is what happened from 2010 to 2011. That question remains unanswered.

Sky have been given the bilharzia disease/treatment as the reason as this leading to inconsistent peformance prior to 2011 but there are some questions around that story.

So the question remains was Froome really a diamond in the rough that just needed polishing or was there some other "breakthough". Between the questions above and Sky's seeming ability to win at will over last 2 years, I am definitely still on fence although today Froome looked patently human.

stronz

Posts:299

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07/18/2013 03:53 PM
well a certain Dark side athlete bonked way back when somewhere around Morzine if memory serves and he turned out to be 100% dopified. I dont know -- no one really impressed my today, except maybe TJVG and I liked AC's attempt at breaking things up on the descent. Just cant get beyond how boring it is to watch Froome ride.
Orange Crush

Posts:1161

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07/18/2013 06:09 PM
Posted By Michael Merva on 07/18/2013 03:27 PM
Somewhere I saw it claimed that this expert said essentially the same thing about -7



Yup, LOL http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/feb01/feb09news.shtml
ElleSeven

Posts:48

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07/19/2013 03:09 PM
First, you don't watch a Grand Tour for interesting racing. It's about running the engines for twenty-one days and minding the mistakes. It's like golf, except that golf is more exciting because you can watch the grass growing. OK, some beautiful scenery, too, in the mountains. People talk about Contador's panache as if it consisted of something more than jumping out of the saddle every other kilometer for no apparent reason. Contador's antic body-language shakes up the video-feed a little, by being furtive and jumpy, but has practically nothing to do with complex tactics and a lot to do with sheer panic. Meanwhile, Chris Froome either has the biggest engine ever seen in cycling or he's doped to molars, but whichever it is, that's all you're ever going to see.

Second, and more to the point: we know pretty much nothing about those "data" because they weren't released to the public. All we're getting is a third-hand report via the press, who generally barely understand what they're commentating on. But in any case, even if (like me) you think that Froome is clean, how many minutes do you think it would take for Sky's in-house IT Igor to rejigger the numbers in those files before sending them? Or seconds, more like. Those power files don't mean diddly (at least in this forensic sense) unless they're recorded remotely or uploaded into encrypted, independent servers that Sky can't get their hands on.
jrt1045

Posts:361

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07/19/2013 03:15 PM
doped to his molars...good one
ElleSeven

Posts:48

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07/19/2013 03:31 PM
... and you golfers out there do realize, I trust, that I'm just winding you up? No offense was intended!
Orange Crush

Posts:1161

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07/20/2013 12:00 PM
I don't know what you guys saw today but to me it looked full alien.
ElleSeven

Posts:48

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07/20/2013 03:50 PM
Orange Crush, I really respect your opinion. You've been one of those guys whose occasional skepticism seems balanced and devoid of ulterior agenda. But I'm curious: what did you see that seemed amiss on the face of it? A friend said, "Look at that, Contador can't keep up with fill-in-the-blank, so … ", to which I pointed out that Contador is someone you're seeing race clean for possibly the first time in his career. This is his natural level. Mind you, he's the guy who once (as he brazenly put it himself) picked himself off a beach towel after six weeks without riding and won the Giro.

The lowliest, crappiest pros in the top-fuel 90s, those proverbial "sow's ears," were nevertheless talented to an extreme and "alien" degree. What was different was that 75-kilo guys were zipping over the high cols while 60-kilo ones were scoring in flat time trials. My impression, from being around plenty of doped girls, is that the normal disciplinary variability narrowed, not that absolute performance changed that radically. Chris Boardman and Tony Rominger both did Hour Records of approximately 56kph. The "dope" is that Boardman's was clean, Rominger's dirty. They were both totally alien.
Yo Mike

Posts:256

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07/20/2013 04:53 PM
Alien or not, CF looks like a puppet on a wire. Did you see how he acted just before he 'went alien'? His hand went up - commentators thought he had flatted or bonked - again - and then seemingly he's on the radio, gets his instructions (?) and then he attacks.

How much do race radio and power meters play in this? Probably a lot, which is why I'd like them eliminated from competition.

The likes of Froome and Wiggins before him (robotic, fugly on the bike, lacking in 'skills') are making me less and less interested in the TdF.
jmdirt

Posts:678

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07/20/2013 05:30 PM
I agree with E7. There are genetic freaks among us. If all is clean, they will be superior. If things get murky, they will still be among the best. If things are dirty, they might be in the mix. If they dope, they will be superior. This is true in all sports.

Disclaimer: I'm not making any claims to the level of cleanliness of any sport or any person.
Orange Crush

Posts:1161

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07/20/2013 06:14 PM
Remarkable fresh as daisy performances by some Elle. I am always looking for patterns and things that stand out, maybe cause that is what I do in the real world too. I've raised my eyebrows several times this Tour, during the Giro only once.

BTW - if you'd have Igor manipulate the data he'd likely make a huge mess. I would throw at least one manipulator and two sets of inquisitive eyes at such an endeavor before releasing it.

Today's funny was when everyone was going full blast at bottom of hill, Froome gently putting an arm on Porte as in "we've got this one bagged buddy".
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1049

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07/22/2013 03:31 PM
Posted By Justin jmdirt on 07/20/2013 05:30 PM
I agree with E7. There are genetic freaks among us. If all is clean, they will be superior. If things get murky, they will still be among the best. If things are dirty, they might be in the mix. If they dope, they will be superior. This is true in all sports.

Disclaimer: I'm not making any claims to the level of cleanliness of any sport or any person.


I was having thsi discussion over on ST....they are, of course, going apeschitt over Froome, saying he is a doper, blah, blah, blah because of his dominance and ride from "nowhere." On the other hand, there is nothing but love for Chrissie Wellington, a woman who came from no endurance sports background or pedigree, showed up out of nowhere and ominated Ironman ditance tris, winning 13 and never losing. Same thing for Allistar Brownlee. He is completely dominating the ITU (draft legal tri's) and everyone sings his praises. They accpet them as "genetic freaks", but label Froome a doper. Intellectual inconsistency, much? (not saying any or all of the above athletes are dopers.....just asking that the same criteria be leveled on all evaluations)
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
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