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Vaccines - the graphenes of the COVID world
Last Post 01/21/2022 10:40 PM by 79 pmooney. 184 Replies.
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longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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03/31/2021 08:52 PM
I’ve lost my skill in adding images to this thread, and as a veteran of the US armed forces I offer all respect to Canadian forces who liberated Holland. Respect. But google American cemeteries in Holland.
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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03/31/2021 09:24 PM
Apparently there is one, in Margraten:

http://www.abmc.gov/Netherlands

I am very familiar with that one as I grew up near it and biked by it many times. Also the area of Amstel Gold Race.

Margraten is in Limburg our Deep South. It would have been in trajectory of US forces push to Germany, ie part of famous Ardennes battles. The only reason we’re not Belgian is because Dutch king liked Maastricht, hence the appendix that is dangling from NL that is Dutch Limburg.

As a kid I played in trenches and craters of this tank battle and dug up munitions in our back yard. My mom of course experienced it as a 4 year old in basement. If you end up reading link, Sint Joost is my hometown. This operation was run by Brits, about 30k north of Margraten. Everything further north was Brits and Canadian forces mostly I think. Of course they were still bogged down liberating NL when you guys were already in Berlin. That was done strategically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blackcock
79pmooney

Posts:3178

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03/31/2021 10:15 PM
lsd, 15M doses isn't 30,000 Liberators. It's more like 3,000. We built 13,000 B17s, 18,000 B24s and 4000 B29s. 15M doses in the what? 150M? doses now delivered. A lot but not war ending. It's not like only the J & J can help us. This setback doesn't affect the other two vaccines at all.

I got the numbers from this website. https://www.airplanes-online.com/wwii-bomber-production-numbers.htm#.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:4209

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04/01/2021 10:20 AM
an inexcusable avoidable screw up


Agreed.

In addition to the 15 million doses that are getting flushed, the plant in Baltimore was to produce "tens of millions" of doses in the coming weeks and would have played a significant role in getting us closer to herd immunity.

The side effect is also then that we cannot ship additional doses overseas to help other countries out...specifically under-developed countries who need our assistance in getting vaccines.

There was good news today however,,,the Pfizer vaccine has been shown to provide 90% efficiency in preventing infections (and 100% efficiency against death / hospitlizations) for 6+ months. We still don't know how long the vaccines will work or if booster shots will be required, but this is an encouraging development. It has also been shown to protect children 12-16 YO.....now we just need FDA approval for use in that age group.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:3178

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04/01/2021 12:04 PM
Cosmic and lsd, I"m not saying this is excusable. Just that sometimes **** happens and trying to go this fast makes it more likely and the consequences higher. I like that we are going this fast. Like throwing race car drivers into F1s and making them race with zero practice. Bad things are going to happen when the stock car drivers hit the chicane. But if the world comes to an end if that winning driver doesn't cross the line with an average speed over 150, you gotta drive those cars.

It didn't have to be quite this chaotic. We knew that when the vaccines got approved, it was going to be a massive rush. A lot could have been done ahead of time. Last summer, get the pharmas on board to agree to share facilities, etc. based on what vaccines get approved. Then start going to the facilities and impressing them that they may be drafted as part of a "war effort" and to be ready. Instead, we had silence from those in charge and a "let the market take care of it" approach. Each pharma was basically being told they were on their own to make the best decisions for their bottom line. That isn't spending time and effort on things that may never happen.

With a "war effort" approach, you try to impress managers that this is real, everything matters. We saw in WW2 that we could produce good stuff at levels unimaginable before because everyone got on board. Now, we had been watching WW2 brew for a decade, then explode into war for two years before we entered so this thought line was well on the way. The pandemic happened much faster. More reason to be talking to the pharmas, even going to their plants and doing the best you can to have a COVID-safe "get ready!" rally and talk. Last summer. Again, thank you, Mr. Biden, for going so fast. And thank you, pharmas, even with screw-up now and the inevitable ones that will follow.

Back to the race car analogy. Last July we knew there was going to be a race, we just didn't know the car type or course. So we let the drives do a few laps in F1s, a couple of drag race starts, laps in the best stock cars, laps in low powered formula cars, etc. So when the blindfolds come off, they recognize the car they are about to step in and race.
smokey52

Posts:492

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04/01/2021 09:55 PM
The J&J screw-up was relying on Emergent to produce their vaccine in the US. Emergent was also working on the AstraZeneca vaccine. Emergent received lots of funding from T's WarpSpeed and hired lots of inexperienced staff. The screw-up involved using A-Z components in the J&J product.
According to the reports, this has been attributed to human error. In my experience in Pharma compliance and quality assurance, "human error" is a cop-out. Most times the process is not robust enough or training is insufficient.
On the bright side, the screw-up was caught by J&J during release testing, so none of the contaminated batch made it to distribution, which shows that testing is comprehensive and only acceptable product reaches market. J&J now has more oversight on Emergent, and FDA is involved. When J&J resumes US production, it should be a safe product.
79pmooney

Posts:3178

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04/01/2021 10:09 PM
smokey, I saw all of that but the Warp Speed funding and rapid hiring. Sounds like J & J is on the ball and that we get to chalk Emergent up as yet another Trump success story.
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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04/01/2021 10:18 PM
OC, thanks for your post.
Profound respect to your Mom, and to your countrymen. And the French, Belgians, Norwegians, and others who resisted and survived, and respect to their liberators. I cannot really imagine their grit and sacrifice.
Dale

Posts:1767

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04/02/2021 08:19 AM
LSD +1. I lived in Norway in the mid-70's and had a few occasions to visit with some involved in the resistance. My brother-in-law's parents were in the Danish underground- never spoke of it until some European TV station tracked them down for a story.

Their heroism is something few of us, and likely none of us, will ever have the chance to match.
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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04/09/2021 06:40 PM

Posted By Cosmic Kid on 03/30/2021 09:23 PM
Awesome news, OC!!


Got the "we have booking appointments for tomorrow" email just now and am booked in for 3:10 pm tomorrow at a local pharmacy to get the AZ shot. Almost simultaneously a cycling buddy got a 2pm appointment at another pharmacy. We can compare notes and be blood clot buddies LOL (actually I have zero worries in that regard).
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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04/09/2021 07:10 PM
More good news. Hope you get your shot soon.
OC nailed it when he observed the original Covid is under control but the new strains not so much. Get vaccines in people's arms ASAP!
Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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04/10/2021 05:13 PM
First shot is in the arm. Second shot TBD as Canada in on the first dose for everyone priority route.
longslowdistance

Posts:2881

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04/10/2021 08:16 PM
Good for you, good for Canada for doing their best to manage, and I hope also your loved ones and neighbors. Injected deltoid likely will be sore. That's OK.

Orange Crush

Posts:4499

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04/10/2021 08:45 PM
I pulled something in that upper arm a few weeks ago that's been hurting since so the injection doesn't really change the hurt that was already there. More curious how I wake up tomorrow. Apparently the AZ side effects are mostly on the first dose and from our friend "oldfart" I heard that he'd been under weather a bit following his first shot. I did postpone my planned training ride from today to tomorrow. Maybe not wise. But at least all the yard work got done and it was a fine day for it.
Dale

Posts:1767

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04/10/2021 09:10 PM
Dose #1 resulted in a sore arm for a bit, dose #2 seemed like no big deal, went to work at one of my rentals doing some painting and clean up between tenants. Next day drove to some appointment and made sales calls. Felt like crap the whole day, got home and was asleep by 6:00pm. Didn't wake up until my wife's alarm clock went off at 5:00am. Did ok after that.
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