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Blood Values
Last Post 12/06/2014 09:27 AM by Justin jmdirt. 6 Replies.
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jmdirt

Posts:775

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12/04/2014 12:52 PM
I was just reading the Roman K. bit on cycling News and it got me thinking about something that comes up in most every doping cases: hemo values during racing (esp. GTs). I would by no means claim to be an expert on blood values, but the research that I'm aware of is not large enough to make the determination that "hemo values drop" from hard racing (esp. day after day). At least two hemo docs have disputed it yet it is the prevailing thought from the UCI and most keyboard hacks.

Disclaimer: I'm not commenting on the guilt or innocence of RK, just the hypothesis about blood values.
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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12/04/2014 01:19 PM
Generally speaking I'd say the interpretation of trends in blood values is still very much in the realm of hocus pocus.
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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12/04/2014 05:49 PM
I got a kick out of the thread title. The American Red Cross values my blood highly. It contains high levels of platelets as well as being a semi-rare type. They have accepted every sample I have given them!

Ben

jmdirt

Posts:775

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12/05/2014 08:29 AM
I wasn't referring to the red market!
ChinookPass

Posts:809

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12/05/2014 01:50 PM
All of the blood "experts" on the forum departed after the Oprah reveal.

It's quite extraordinary that RK's blood values go in the opposite direction of the accepted standard for the bio-passport! He might be a very gifted athlete and genetically blessed! Maybe there's another sport that would welcome such a physical specimen because cycling doesn't seem to have a place for this guy.
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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12/05/2014 06:44 PM
Situations are like this one of pretty much obvious blood doping stand out as exceptions, where it's easy to deride and subsequently discard the athlete.
But I don't doubt for a second that definitely many, probably most, and perhaps nearly all other Pro Tour riders are juiced, just enough less to stay "below the radar".
I justify this assertion by the unassailable fact that modern blood doping, even when applied modestly, is just do darned effective that it's necessary simply to keep up.
Serious question to all of you in Velonation: Am I wrong?
Don't harken back to the Merckx, Anquetil and Coppi eras when dope was weak weak weak and hardly made any difference. The riders' options now are enormously more effective.
jmdirt

Posts:775

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12/06/2014 09:27 AM
lsd, IMO, it doesn't matter how "effective" the program is/was, its the intent. The reason that athletes dope is to increase their chances of winning. It doesn't matter if potbelge only increased performance by.05 while hemo dope increases it by 5. Athletes use the best they can get at the time.

I've posted this before: I really enjoy football (NFL) and know that most of them use all sorts of PES and I really don't care. I really enjoy cycling and I want it to be clean. I've thought about that a lot over the years and I guess I feel that way because I tried to be a dirt pro and I raced for 20 years at a expert/pro level so I feel more personally connected to cycling. I played football in Jr/Sr High but it was just kid recreation so I don't feel that connection.

So, I hope that the platoon is clean(er) than before. but they do race for money so... My point though, is that athletes are being called out based on a hypothesis that is just that, a hypothesis (a disputed one at that). At this point the hypothesis on hemo values is not scientifically confirmed. I recognize the difficulty of tying to confirm it because the researchers would have to use groups of elite endurance athletes racing for three weeks. That is the problem at this point, the UCI used ~1000 tests to determine what "normal" blood values are.
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