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old guys doping
Last Post 10/23/2013 09:23 PM by Doug Sheppard. 23 Replies.
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THE SKINNY

Posts:386

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10/21/2013 04:02 PM
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/10/news/is-this-man-a-doper_306150

How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives.
ChinookPass

Posts:442

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10/21/2013 04:07 PM
don't ask don't tell
Dude should join the GF circuit and stop sending $$ to CoSpgs.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1091

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10/21/2013 06:05 PM
This is clearly gonna continue to be an issue as the racing population continues to age.....and given the current propensity for docs to quickly write scrips for T (aging clinics, anyone?)

And it is for exactly that reason that USA Cycling needs to take their current stand....simply having a doc say "you need this" should not be sufficient for a TUE.

But is this guy "cheating" to finish mid-pack in a Cat. 4 race? Clearly not....but what happens if (when?) he starts to get results? How do you handle that situation?

It is a murky road ahead.....
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
The Short White Guy™

Posts:56

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10/21/2013 09:56 PM
I have no qualms about how I finish when/if I jump back into any pack. In fact, I may even announce it to my fellow competitors that I have been taking a banned dru, and I will gleefully skipping to the pisser tent knowing that there is Triamterene/HCTZ in my system. Let them try and question 40+ years of taking that drug!
jmdirt

Posts:694

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10/21/2013 10:42 PM
TSWG, you are OK with evening the playing field?
Yes, if he decides to race, he is doping. My hematocrit is lower than others so is it OK for me to use epo to get it even? My t is lower so give me some t sup as well. I'm just evening things out after all. She* t ain't even and life ain't fair, race with want you mom and dad gave you...sorry if you got shorted but that's life.
ChinookPass

Posts:442

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10/22/2013 12:01 AM
dude's a cat 4.
Drug testing is only necessary for Juniors and pros cuz they are not mature enough to look away from their blind ambition long enough to keep from drugging themselves to death.

The rest of you are just playing pick-up cycling (and there's nothing wrong with that in my book). The only test you have to pass is if you can look at yourself in the mirror and say it's all good.
The Short White Guy™

Posts:56

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10/22/2013 09:13 AM
Posted By Justin jmdirt on 10/21/2013 10:42 PM
TSWG, you are OK with evening the playing field?
Yes, if he decides to race, he is doping. My hematocrit is lower than others so is it OK for me to use epo to get it even? My t is lower so give me some t sup as well. I'm just evening things out after all. She* t ain't even and life ain't fair, race with want you mom and dad gave you...sorry if you got shorted but that's life.

Um, "Estoy tranquilo"? You missed my point - the controllers would laugh at me and automatically give me a pass because of my "history". Am I leveling the playing field for myself? No. The only thing I'm leveling is my endocrine system and regulating the amount of liquid that my kidneys handle on a daily basis. Trust me, the Triamterene/HCTZ I take at age 45 is not performance enhancing, and it was not at age 20.



Cosmic Kid

Posts:1091

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10/22/2013 09:48 AM
Chinook's point re" "pick-up cycling" is very valid, and one reason why the above doesn't cause me any real angst.

But what about when there is something on the line...something of real value? Maybe it is a "big money" race (well...maybe not anymore, but they used to have them)? Better yet, what about in triathlon where slots to Kona are on the line in each age group in every IM race? If i lose a Kona slot to some guy who is blantantly using T because his doc claims he "needs it", you can damn well believe I'm gonna raise a stink (OK, me getting a KQ slot is as likely as a big money race in this day and age, but you get the point )
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
ChinookPass

Posts:442

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10/22/2013 11:17 AM
as far as I can tell, the only big money in triathalon are the people paying $700+ in entry fees (that's just me kicking myself for not ticking off that bucket-lister many years ago when entries were much saner!).

You can't really think too much about those guys "blatantly using T" unless they are the majority of your competitors, at which point you have to ask yourself if Kona really means anything anyway.
Keith Richards

Posts:731

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10/22/2013 11:20 AM
I think guys need to be honest about their Walter Mitty ways as it pertains to cycling. Dude in the article should just find his local fast group ride and be happy.
----- It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1091

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10/22/2013 11:41 AM
Posted By Jim Laudolff on 10/22/2013 11:17 AM
as far as I can tell, the only big money in triathalon are the people paying $700+ in entry fees (that's just me kicking myself for not ticking off that bucket-lister many years ago when entries were much saner!).

You can't really think too much about those guys "blatantly using T" unless they are the majority of your competitors, at which point you have to ask yourself if Kona really means anything anyway.


Well, take a look at the demographics (older, higher disposable income, successful, type A etc) and contrast them against the target demographics of the burgeoning "Aging Clinic" industry - spot-on match.

And as we have seen from numerous Masters bust and Age Groupers bust in triathlon that T is very likely used at the highest levels of those categories.

And yeah, I do think Kona slots *mean* something....but I guess it is up to each individual to determine what. Realistically for me, if I can get my running injuries straighted out, I think I could be on the edge of qualifying for my age group, probably just outside it. I would love the opportunity to race in Kona, simply because it is the pinnacle of the sport and steeped in legend. But that is exactly why so many AG athletes are willing to dope to get there.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
The Short White Guy™

Posts:56

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10/22/2013 12:47 PM
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Traithlons? Doping? What are we? ST?
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1091

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10/22/2013 03:00 PM
Nah....the fanboys on ST don't think anyone in triathlon dopes.

Dopes.

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:1104

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10/22/2013 03:59 PM
I guess I am in a small (tiny?) minority here, but using a drug or therapy prescribed by a medical professional for a real deficiency doesn't bother me, especially here where it appears this was found, not in the context of riding better, but addressing real challenges in his everyday life. Enough "T" to address those issues is OK by me. If that means he now beats me, well sounds like he is a stronger rider than me and I just need to accept that. (Maybe I shouldn't accept that. Maybe it is my right and place to feel really good about being able to stomp on guys with known deficiencies and health issues.)

In the pro ranks - Contador was far from his best in real part because of the allergies he struggles with every early summer but was especially bad this year because pollen was so high. Is racing better because the known remedy is banned? I would prefer TUEs that have to be monitored carefully (and at perhaps less than at a fully effective level for the condition being treated, but at a high enough level that the rider is at least close to what he could do if both clean and healthy.

I don't feel recovery drugs and therapies should get this treatment as good recovery is such a part of training, smart decisions on and off the bike, etc. but allowing a properly trained rider to have the chance to line up at the start somewhere near his best should be allowed.

Ben
jmdirt

Posts:694

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10/22/2013 05:45 PM
Ben,

Where's is the line? Is it stock car racing: Bike racing would have "limits" (like the old hematocrit line) to make things even. 50 H, 30 T, 20 hgh, 12 bovine...

Certainly take things to make life better because that's more important than bike racing, but if you take those things, don't race.
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