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OK, I am finally doing it.....
Last Post 04/23/2016 10:15 PM by 79 pmooney. 16 Replies.
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Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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04/13/2016 09:34 AM
This weekend I am in LA for a conference with my oldest daughter. I am also taking this opportunity to finally do some aero testing with ERO Sports out there.

They do their testing on an indoor velodrome, so it is a bit more "real world" than wind tunnel testing (although you don;t really get much yaw). I can never hold my position on a TT bike well when on a trainer, so actually riding while testing will be better for me, I think.

Will be testing several different helmets (Specialized Evade, Kask Bambino and Giro Selector), different positions and aero extensions (hands / arms horizontal vs. angled up), clothing options (sleeved vs. sleevless trisuit) and hydration options (Between the arms WB vs. an aero bottle / straw setup; and round bottle on DT vs. aero bottle).

May be too much to test as fatigue will set in, but it should be pretty cool, nonetheless. have a buddy coming over to help me swap stuff around between runs, etc.

Full report when I get done.....below is my current position (although I lowered the bars 1cm recently)

Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:953

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04/13/2016 10:15 AM
Oh, man, what a cool opportunity! This must be like a dream come true for you. Congrats! Looking forward to the full report
ChinookPass

Posts:809

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04/13/2016 10:41 AM
damn! Cool!
Spud

Posts:482

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04/13/2016 11:13 AM
Sweet ride you got there CK!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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04/13/2016 11:14 AM
Well, I dunno about a dream come true.....but it will definitely help ease some nagging doubts about equipment choices. Overall, I think I have a pretty solid set-up. In the pic above (Racine Half-Ironman) I went 22.9mph for 56 miles on 190w. Pretty good, IMO....question is whether it could be better.

Lots of reports that the Bambino isn't that great of a lid....unless you have your head below your shoulders (which I do a lot....see pic). But it kinda sits in the back of your mind.

I also want to see if it makes a big difference for a large, round WB on the DT vs. an aero bottle. I would prefer to use a standard cage and WB for flexibility reasons (drop a bottle and you can just grab a new one at the feed zone).....but if there is a large differential, I'll go with an aero bottle and have a fresh one / back-up at the Special Needs stop.

For people that have tested it, the Torhans Aero30 system can test really well if you can get the bottle right up against your head tube. I can't quite get there on the set-up below, but if I run some different extensions, I can get it right where it needs to be.


Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
ChinookPass

Posts:809

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04/13/2016 11:27 AM
anything goes? bontrager levers on a brand S?

Did you book a room in Kona yet?
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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04/13/2016 11:30 AM
Hell yes anything goes.....the original Specialized levers sucked....if you used the barrel adjusters, they 1) barely moved the brake arms, and 2) stuck way out from the lever body. The Bontragers have a huge amount of range and the shape never changes. Plus they are carbon.

As for Kona.....um, no. and not likely anytime soon.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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04/16/2016 05:25 PM
Oh jeez....dodged a bullet today. Shipped my bike out and was putting it together this AM. Took headset bearing falls apart when I am reinstalling the fork....FOOOOOOOK.

Drive from downtown LA to Beverly Hills to Santa Monica, desperately trying different shops. Finally found a replacement bearing ar Wheel World in Culver City. *whew*

What was supposed to be a relaxing day before my testing turned into a high stress, panic tour of LA.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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04/17/2016 09:50 PM
Did the aero testing last night...after the near-disaster of my headset bearing, I was anxious the whole time..."what's gonna happen next?" Sure enough...as I was heading out of my hotel, my front tire was flat. Figured they would have another wheel for me to use (and they did, thank god).

I tested for over 3 hours and rode nearly 35 miles on a 250m track. And I STILL didn't test everything I wanted to. Holy hell....but it was so cool. The entire experience was great, but in the end, I barely changed my position. We angled my arms up slightly (10* or so). We spent most of the time on my position and really didn't change anything....I pretty much confirmed what I always thought - my position was already pretty damn slippery.

We tried a lower position with narrower elbows - no difference. What was surprising was that we tested some extensions which raised my hands up (pseudo-praying mantis) and my numbers got worse, which they said is pretty rare.

Never got a chance to test my other helmets or hydration options, unfortunately. The only piece of different equipment I tested was a sleeved tri-suit vs. sleeveless....that was a big saver, even though the suit was still pretty big on me and not close to being optimal.

I asked him at the end how my numbers stacked up and he said I had a really low CdA...the last run I was .221 with a couple of my laps around .215. He also said I was super-consistent in my drag numbers, never fluctuating much during my test runs (10-12 laps). I did two laps in a row where my CdA was consistent to the 5th integer!

He also said the new Giro TT lid is a "game changer"...never tested worse than an 8w improvement for anyone and usually more. Looks like I have a new lid in my future.

Fire away if anyone has any questions.....

Oh yeah...the track was 45* in the turns....STEEP!!
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:953

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04/18/2016 06:51 AM
In the photo you posted you look like you're punching a pretty small hole in the air but totally cool you got to confirm that and tweet the position.


What was it like to ride on the track? The only track experience I've ever had was at Talladega and in the turns had to look out the upper left section of the windshield to see where I was going. If I looked straight ahead all I saw was pavement. Was it the same on a velodrome where you had to look up and to the left or did you just concentrate on the blue line... or whatever line you're supposed to ride next to?
ChinookPass

Posts:809

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04/18/2016 10:47 AM
How do they account for wind or is this nullified because it is a short loop? Is it worth it to go back and test out the things you didn't have time for, like water bottles etc? And are the improvements due to skinsuit sleeves enough to justify racing in those if they are hot or impractical for the swim and run (can definitely use in a TT!)?
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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04/18/2016 11:23 AM
The beauty of testing on the velodrome is that wind is not a factor, so you get clean data. The downside is that you can't account for yaw. That said, more data is coming out that shows most riders don't really experience yaw angles over 10*, and substantially less if you are reasonably fast. And really, nothing in my set-up would indicate that my numbers would get worse @ yaw.

The ideal would absolutely be to go back and test equipment (especially helmets). But what is funny is that my hydration set-up for testing was really bad (see pic above). A single LARGE bottle on the DT. So any changes I make there will be an improvement. The big question I need to answer is my hydration between my arms (BTA). I think I have an opportunity for significant improvements, but could make it worse, too. The eyeball wind tunnel is not reliable!

The suit is faster because of the sleeves and guys have been racing them in the Kona heat for a couple of years...worth minutes over 112 miles, plus it also keeps the sun off your shoulders / arms. As for the swim, most people have them rolled up around their waist under a wetsuit or swimskin and then pull it up while running to the bike. The few seconds you lose there are more than made up on the bike.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:953

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04/18/2016 12:04 PM
For road bikes is a single bottle best on the DT or the ST?

...not that I'm caving to the areo fad or anything
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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04/18/2016 05:10 PM
Facts aren't a fad.

The answer is....it depends. Some bikes test better on the DT, others on the ST. Bikes like the Scott Foil or Madone test well on the DT because of the tube design.

I *think* round tube bikes tend to do better with them on ST, however.

Forgot to mention that the guys at ERO have offered to give me a deal on a second round of testing if I can make it back out. I'll probably take them up on it last this year if I can find a reason to hit LA. They felt bad I couldn't test everything I wanted since we spent so much time on position. Very cool of them...
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
6ix

Posts:214

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04/22/2016 05:30 PM
We need to all chip in and buy you a Big Mac. Looking super thin!!

This has been an excellent thread. Very intrigued by all of your findings. Is there a way to find your baseline? Take myself as an example, if I could plug in my weight, height, bar height and wheels, would it be possible to get a general idea on how many pounds of drag I'm getting? Reason I ask is because you see all these adds about wattage savings and I'd like to really put it to the test. If changing pulleys would result in saving 5 watts, that's pretty hefty.

All that aside, you have a great aero position. Quite impressive.
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