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My next crazy project
Last Post 09/25/2017 06:08 PM by 79 pmooney. 61 Replies.
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Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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06/21/2017 02:31 PM
Test...

[URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/19146115_824130714423360_8185318693635542338_n_zpsraqcxn5z.jpg.html][/URL]
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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06/21/2017 02:39 PM
Cool...still remember how to post pics.

Anyway so I never noticed max sprocket and just went by maximum capacity calculation which is 45T range for Tiagra long cage so 50/34 and 11-40 works...just. Full intensity test on Friday to see how it does under pressure.

And while you're awake (and apologies to Ben for derail), here's some pics from gravel adventure of 2 weeks ago.

[URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/18953064_820692904767141_8693149989665458026_n_zpsratkagvn.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/19060214_820693754767056_776539693032464148_n_zpsgdzm7r4i.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/19059195_820693994767032_334137411133058594_n_zpsytsboutn.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Jos_Beckers/media/19025160_820757854760646_1659940708025015_o_zpsxhvsecxs.jpg.html][/URL]
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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06/21/2017 03:37 PM
Beautiful photos
That bike in the last photo definitely does not have a 40 in the back.
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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06/21/2017 03:41 PM
lad, back to last century, Mt Washington. I rode it twice but never with the classic Campy setup. 1975, the year before I raced on my Lambert with its Lambert/TA triple, 52-42-28 x 13-24 as a tourist (when you could do that; just pay the auto toll and ride up). 1978, the TT. I knew from doing it before that 42-28, the Campy standard, was way over-geared. I also knew the only time you needed a remotely big gear was the first 1/4 mile of flat from the toll booth to the trees. You can lose a bunch of seconds in that 1/4 mile, but if you can trim a pound, you come out way ahead! (Yeah, you lose drafting opportunities by being slow at the start, but drafting on an 8 mph average climb what is steeper at the bottom than further up costs you how much?)

So, being the engineer geek, I came up with a Mt Washington solution. A 5-speed setup. 28 x 13-21. Bought a new TA triple 52-43-28 for my future custom (the yet to be 79pmooney). Took an old TA outside chainring and cut it down to the bolt circle. Bolted the 28 tooth chainring to the spider. Made up a chain to length. Tested it on Boston's steepest climb, a block or two off Beacon St near Brookline. Woked great, though the ride out was tedious. 28-13. 58".

One of my challenges was that the day before was the Mt Washington road race. I had to be able to do the switch to the hill climb setup while being fully stupid. It worked out really well. Got a lift after the race to the AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club) "hut" at the base of Tuckerman's Ravine, the favorite place to start the climb up on foot from. Swapped my rear wheel from my race wheel to my training wheel with the 13-21 FW. Pulled off the cranks and mounted the TAs. Swapped chains, simply bypassing (far under) the front derailleur. Took off the bottle cages. Done. Next morning I coasted down the 1000' or so to the toll booth.

We started in groups of three. My "mates" pulled a horizon job on me at the start (52-13 being slightly faster that 28-13). In a mile I passed mate #2. A mile later, the other. At the tree line I had to walk a stretch and then again later. (The 5 hours of racing the day before with the first 3 against a hard, gusty fall NW wind, being on of two tallest on the bike riders in a field of 39 Cat 1s and 2s took its toll.) I went up the final wall without stopping only because I knew I would fall over reaching for my straps. Clipless - I would have walked. 1 hr, 18 minutes and change. (I never got my exact time.) Based on that, I am quite certain I could have pulled off 1:05 the year before (before my head injury) with no road race the day before. (I was a Cat 3 - didn't qualify.) 1:05 would put me in pretty elite circles. The record then was 1 hour even. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Oh well.

So the take from this? I guess just that Ben's been having fun with cranksets a long time!

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1759

--
06/21/2017 03:46 PM
lad, back to last century, Mt Washington. I rode it twice but never with the classic Campy setup. 1975, the year before I raced on my Lambert with its Lambert/TA triple, 52-42-28 x 13-24 as a tourist (when you could do that; just pay the auto toll and ride up). 1978, the TT. I knew from doing it before that 42-28, the Campy standard, was way over-geared. I also knew the only time you needed a remotely big gear was the first 1/4 mile of flat from the toll booth to the trees. You can lose a bunch of seconds in that 1/4 mile, but if you can trim a pound, you come out way ahead! (Yeah, you lose drafting opportunities by being slow at the start, but drafting on an 8 mph average climb what is steeper at the bottom than further up costs you how much?)

So, being the engineer geek, I came up with a Mt Washington solution. A 5-speed setup. 28 x 13-21. Bought a new TA triple 52-43-28 for my future custom (the yet to be 79pmooney). Took an old TA outside chainring and cut it down to the bolt circle. Bolted the 28 tooth chainring to the spider. Made up a chain to length. Tested it on Boston's steepest climb, a block or two off Beacon St near Brookline. Woked great, though the ride out was tedious. 28-13. 58".

One of my challenges was that the day before was the Mt Washington road race. I had to be able to do the switch to the hill climb setup while being fully stupid. It worked out really well. Got a lift after the race to the AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club) "hut" at the base of Tuckerman's Ravine, the favorite place to start the climb up on foot from. Swapped my rear wheel from my race wheel to my training wheel with the 13-21 FW. Pulled off the cranks and mounted the TAs. Swapped chains, simply bypassing (far under) the front derailleur. Took off the bottle cages. Done. Next morning I coasted down the 1000' or so to the toll booth.

We started in groups of three. My "mates" pulled a horizon job on me at the start (52-13 being slightly faster that 28-13). In a mile I passed mate #2. A mile later, the other. At the tree line I had to walk a stretch and then again later. (The 5 hours of racing the day before with the first 3 against a hard, gusty fall NW wind, being on of two tallest on the bike riders in a field of 39 Cat 1s and 2s took its toll.) I went up the final wall without stopping only because I knew I would fall over reaching for my straps. Clipless - I would have walked. 1 hr, 18 minutes and change. (I never got my exact time.) Based on that, I am quite certain I could have pulled off 1:05 the year before (before my head injury) with no road race the day before. (I was a Cat 3 - didn't qualify.) 1:05 would put me in pretty elite circles. The record then was 1 hour even. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Oh well.

So the take from this? I guess just that Ben's been having fun with cranksets a long time!

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1759

--
06/21/2017 03:51 PM
lad, back to last century, Mt Washington. I rode it twice but never with the classic Campy setup. 1975, the year before I raced on my Lambert with its Lambert/TA triple, 52-42-28 x 13-24 as a tourist (when you could do that; just pay the auto toll and ride up). 1978, the TT. I knew from doing it before that 42-28, the Campy standard, was way over-geared. I also knew the only time you needed a remotely big gear was the first 1/4 mile of flat from the toll booth to the trees. You can lose a bunch of seconds in that 1/4 mile, but if you can trim a pound, you come out way ahead! (Yeah, you lose drafting opportunities by being slow at the start, but drafting on an 8 mph average climb what is steeper at the bottom than further up costs you how much?)

So, being the engineer geek, I came up with a Mt Washington solution. A 5-speed setup. 28 x 13-21. Bought a new TA triple 52-43-28 for my future custom (the yet to be 79pmooney). Took an old TA outside chainring and cut it down to the bolt circle. Bolted the 28 tooth chainring to the spider. Made up a chain to length. Tested it on Boston's steepest climb, a block or two off Beacon St near Brookline. Woked great, though the ride out was tedious. 28-13. 58".

One of my challenges was that the day before was the Mt Washington road race. I had to be able to do the switch to the hill climb setup while being fully stupid. It worked out really well. Got a lift after the race to the AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club) "hut" at the base of Tuckerman's Ravine, the favorite place to start the climb up on foot from. Swapped my rear wheel from my race wheel to my training wheel with the 13-21 FW. Pulled off the cranks and mounted the TAs. Swapped chains, simply bypassing (far under) the front derailleur. Took off the bottle cages. Done. Next morning I coasted down the 1000' or so to the toll booth.

We started in groups of three. My "mates" pulled a horizon job on me at the start (52-13 being slightly faster that 28-13). In a mile I passed mate #2. A mile later, the other. At the tree line I had to walk a stretch and then again later. (The 5 hours of racing the day before with the first 3 against a hard, gusty fall NW wind, being on of two tallest on the bike riders in a field of 39 Cat 1s and 2s took its toll.) I went up the final wall without stopping only because I knew I would fall over reaching for my straps. Clipless - I would have walked. 1 hr, 18 minutes and change. (I never got my exact time.) Based on that, I am quite certain I could have pulled off 1:05 the year before (before my head injury) with no road race the day before. (I was a Cat 3 - didn't qualify.) 1:05 would put me in pretty elite circles. The record then was 1 hour even. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Oh well.

So the take from this? I guess just that Ben's been having fun with cranksets a long time!

Ben
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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06/21/2017 03:52 PM
The elite record was in the 1:00 range back then, in the pre-doping era. Yes, 1:05 would have been an excellent time in any era.
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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06/21/2017 03:55 PM
The elite record was in the 1:00 range back then, in the pre-epo era. Yes, 1:05 would have been an excellent time in any era.
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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06/21/2017 04:15 PM
Posted By Frederick Jones on 06/21/2017 03:37 PM
Beautiful photos
That bike in the last photo definitely does not have a 40 in the back.


No that was the Orbea with road climbing gearing 34x25. Little bit tough on gravel climb but doable.
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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06/25/2017 04:39 PM
LSD - long story short - the 34x40 worked beautifully until it broke. Would share some pics but photobucket's a pain momentarily. Did about 4 kms of 10% singletrack as part of an overall 12km climb. Then went on to do back of Grouse Mountain, rough rocky forest road, mixing it up with MTB crowd. Shifting was perfect but must have caught a rock somewhere, derailleur hanger broke off 2 km below top. Hiked up rest on one of the ski runs and took the bike down on Gondola. Getting it fixed now and hopefully this was a fluke and won't repeat for Hellracer. Other than the break the setup seemed to work perfectly. That was one rough trail.
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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06/25/2017 06:09 PM
OC, sounds like you need one of my 3-speed fixed gears. Yes, you have to stop to change gears, but think about it, no hanger to break. (That climb sounds like one of the climbs in the (either first or very early) trans-continental bike rides. And he didn't even cheat and use 3 gears. (I also don't believe that guy ever resorted to a ski lift.)

Ben
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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06/25/2017 06:20 PM
Yeah someone commented I should just go for singlespeed option. I'll consider it LOL.
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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06/30/2017 12:37 AM
Went for a 50 miler this evening on the 44-17. Too low! Felt too low going out into a light headwind, and definitely too low coming home. Did the ride in ~3 hrs flat, no stops. Last 4 miles were in traffic then a MUP trail I don't ride fast. I felt the ride but I also think it is time to bump up the chainring. (The drawback to custom "dingles" is that I need to refinance my house if I want choices. So 17 teeth in back it is. I htink I will get a 48, out that on the outside and the current 46 outside in the middle. 46-17 will give me 73", a good workout gear. (These will all come down for CO. Day one I'll be cursing. Day 4 after Crater Lake? All will be well (I hope).

Except for the gearing issue, wow! am I liking the Mooney as it is set up. What a great ride! Pure elegance. There really is this thing that classic steel bikes have that is so wonderful, something the English framebuilders have known for many decades. (Peter Mooney being English and apprenticing with Holdsworth.)

Ben
79pmooney

Posts:1759

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07/10/2017 01:37 PM
I wrote this post in answer to OC's post re: his epic ride last weekend, then thought "I don't want to de-rail his thread".

So, in the context of OC's epic ride: My goal riding Cycle Oregon this year is to get into good enough shape that I can do CO, enjoy it, stay injury free and (maybe) ride one of the big climbs of the week with "sister", the woman I rode up Dead Indian Memorial Highway out of Ashland with 5 years ago. (3000' in 15 miles after 3 consecutive mountain days.) She missed the next three years with a (lifelong) chronic issue that meant she cannot sleep on hard ground in a tent. Every year I would ask about her at the Candlelighters' campsite. Last year I was told she and her husband were sleeping in that RV - pulled up to the Candlelighter's area. The RV was donated (and apparently driven) so she could make the ride! Between that and me being given a spot on the ride and CO waiving the strict rule re: transferring ride spots, we knew we were the two "graced" riiders of the 2000. I didn't catch up with her until Thursday eve. Knocked on her RV window. She opened it, saw me and started telling me how they got her. We were both in tears.

I tried to ride with her but it didn't work. She has to ride hard the first 10 miles to get past the pain of her condition and she is strong. I wasn't trained at all last year and even though by late week, I was doing a lot better, only going straight uphill would I have had a remote chance of staying with her. This year, if the opportunity is there, I want to give it my best so we can arrive at a big climb together. Then it is brother and sister. We are both mountain goats. Seeing her climb gives me what I need to go as hard as I have to.

It's coming along. I've been trying to do blocks of 3 to 5 (once 7) days straight of riding, playing by ear what I should do for the rides. Sometimes it has been fairly fast disciplined 60 to 70 miles, some days climbing, some days easy. Recently I"ve been throwing in steep climbs, taking advantage of strength I haven't had in recent years to "loaf" up the steepest pitches. (In a 44-17, loafing is a relative term.) One of the most gratifyingmarkers is once again being able to do a real tuck at the bottoms of hills with my legs flying so I can carry that high RPM far up the next one. Now that is fun! and the real benchmark of fix gear supple. (It will NOT be appreciated by some of the geared folk in September and it WILL make me the talked about rider there. So be it. Actually I don't think this year has all that many rollers, so they may be spared.)

I also want to do the climb up from Diamond Lake to the Crater Lake summit and the loop around and be fully present in one of the magic places on the Earth. I rode the exact same roads that CO 5 years ago, but only because I took a wrong turn and went down nearly all of the 1600' to Diamond Lake before I realized my error. With just enough snacks in my pocket to get around the loop to lunch, this was a near crisis. The climb back to the rim was not fun. I did luck out. The CO organizers were completely taken by surprise when nearly 1000 riders decided to do the loop. (They figured on several hundred max.) I arrived at the rest stop right after a van showed up with energy bars to the stripped bare rest stop. Still, I was just dragging myself around the rim to lunch. Stopped several times, but the sights barely registered. I want this year to be different!

And I want to be able to fully savor the gravel as I understand some of that is also in magic country that I know nothing about. Can't do that in survival mode. It's coming along!

The cool part of all this is "getting it". Getting that injuries and burn-out are as bad as insufficient training. Getting it that if I start training early enough, I get to go easy, not ride for several day blocks, bail on rides where things are just "not right" is all OK, even for the good for this 64 yo.

Ben
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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07/10/2017 02:26 PM
You got this Ben. Good luck on ride. Hope to be able to do that kind of riding 12 yrs from now. Inspirational.
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