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interesting article on exhaustion: physical or mental?
Last Post 12/17/2014 08:21 PM by Orange Crush. 18 Replies.
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Orange Crush

Posts:1251

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06/07/2014 06:24 PM
Scroll down to below athlete comment to actual article, pretty interesting. http://alainlambert.wordpress.com/2014/05/11/what-we-call-exhaustion-isnt-the-inability-to-continue-its-giving-up/
Pin0Q0

Posts:229

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06/08/2014 07:24 PM
Good perspective but long, over analyzed and I’m not totally convinced. I think pain threshold varies per individual, and ultimately athletes with high pain threshold are the ones that can perform on a pro level.

My question to the author would be (at least about myself) is how your pain threshold varies from day to the next. Granted by no means do I follow a strict diet or training regime, I ride three to four times a week, but my threshold varies on the same ride, for instance, rode Thursday after work 38m, very little climbing, rest Friday, and rode 72 miles Saturday with about 3000 ft of climbing, which included the Manayunk wall. Felt like crap all day in the saddle, thighs screaming, knee clicking and felt my hamstrings were going to pop. I rode the exact loop today, felt no pain and hammered with no issues, I was well fueled both days. Makes no sense!! My 2c.
C2K_Rider

Posts:173

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06/09/2014 10:31 AM
This is a revelation? Not sure why. I wonder if the researcher ever competed in anything.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1192

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11/25/2014 04:26 PM
I've been reading a book by Matt Fitzgerald called "Run", which talks about learning how to run by feel....and not just on any given day, but in terms of guiding your whole running program. Very interesting stuff....

Anyway, he talks about this exact thing in the book. His premise is that the mind basically seeks to protect the body from damaging itself and shuts down the systems before it can get hurt.

Tim Noakes has a similar theory and calls it the "internal governer."
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
jacques_anquetil

Posts:234

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11/25/2014 05:23 PM
i wish my internal governor was set to something other than "lazy."
longslowdistance

Posts:744

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11/26/2014 08:46 AM
LOL!
Pass the remote.
jmdirt

Posts:755

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11/28/2014 11:09 AM
A Physiology/Kinesiolgy Doc published research called "Break on Through" in the late '80s. One of his conclusions was, what Pin said above, that elite athletes can take their bodies to a place that most people can't.

It might have been Brian Sharky?
Keith Richards

Posts:759

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12/01/2014 01:22 PM
This makes sense to me instinctively. I have a friend who is vegetarian, doesn't smoke, rarely drinks...all the right bike equipment. Tall, skinny. When I introduced him to cycling, looking at him on paper I thought, "well once I show him the ropes I will probably be chasing him all over the DC/metro area."

Never happened. He just simply cannot take the physical discomfort that is required to be fast. I realized it when he came back from two weeks in Colorado and was no faster than when he left. I spend two weeks in Colorado mid season and I will come back with Pro/1/2 speed.

He always is talking about the importance of "listening to your body" and my respnose to him was, "I don't know about strictly 'listening to your body'...me and my body are in constant conversation. But sometimes it does what I tell it, not the other way around."

CK...at a certain point with years in a sport, should any grown person be able to train by feel?
----- It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1192

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12/01/2014 03:07 PM
Posted By Keith Jackson on 12/01/2014 01:22 PM
CK...at a certain point with years in a sport, should any grown person be able to train by feel?


Yeah, I think so.....but I think it takes a long time to generate the data points necessary to be able to guide by "feel."

I know how hard I should be pushing during the bike leg in a tri, no matter the distance. Short distance tri = "Suck it up, buttercup", Half IM = "tempo" ride and full IM = "Long day, save it for the run." Even without a power meter, I can dial in my pace by feel pretty easily.

Running, OTOH, is a complete guess for me (as is well evidenced nby my implosion at Madison). Without a watch or Garmin to pace myself, I am lost. I tend to run WAY too fast in training especially.

But I have seen good runners who can easily pace themselves on the run struggle completely with the bike. The "feel" of those two efforts are pretty different. For distance running, your "feel" seems to need to be much easier than your "feel" for a similar effort bike.

But experience can teach you this over time.....I just lack the necessary database in running to pace myself properly by "feel'.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Keith Richards

Posts:759

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12/02/2014 02:12 PM
Yeah, we are actually agreeing. If you had decades of 10ks and 1/2 marathons and full marathons under your belt along with all the training required to be proficient at them, going by feel would be easy.

That is where most of the people on this forum are at. After so many seasons of ramping up, peaking, etc., you should know what you need to do and when to a certain extent.
----- It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
Hoshie

Posts:123

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12/16/2014 12:00 AM
RPE is really effective if you are "tuned" and know yourself. I find when I get training regularly again, RPE is good and matches my data well.

On a side note, I put the garmin, trainingpeaks, etc away after I got pneumonia in Fall and am now just looking forward to getting back in shape by enjoying riding for a bit. Less stress.

Keith, I totally agree with your assessment on pain and ability to push thru. I am best when fit - then I don't mind hurting. So, my desire and ability to hurt increases w/ fitness which I suppose many guys are like that.

In contrast I have a riding "buddy" who has all the physical tools but he never out climbs me which is embarrassing for him.

I am a short mesomorph sprinter looking guy, and he is tall and willowy, but he just can't suffer. That's the bottom line. He's got better physiology, but soft as a pillow....

j

Dale

Posts:524

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12/16/2014 01:50 AM
Yer' riding buddy is Andy?! Holy cow, that's so cool!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:1192

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12/16/2014 10:30 AM
Keith, I totally agree with your assessment on pain and ability to push thru. I am best when fit - then I don't mind hurting. So, my desire and ability to hurt increases w/ fitness which I suppose many guys are like that.


So there is a "trend" now in training. / coaching that deals with "specificity"....IOW, as you get closer to your "A" race, your training should begin to mimic those race demands.

If your big goal of the season is the state RR, you would do more high intensity stuff early in the year and then begin to add distance as you approach the race. This concept is advocated a lot for long-course triathletes. Do high intensity stuff in the winter and then add volume as the race approaches.

Here's the thing - I have zero desire to high intensity stuff when I am not at a pretty high level of fitness. It sucks and it hurts and it is demoralizing. But then again, I have always been an athlete that responded better to a "high volume" regimen vs. lower volume and higher intensity.

But as hoshie notes, my desire to do the high-intensity stuff grows as my fitness grows.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:1251

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12/16/2014 11:50 AM
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 12/16/2014 10:30 AM
Keith, I totally agree with your assessment on pain and ability to push thru. I am best when fit - then I don't mind hurting. So, my desire and ability to hurt increases w/ fitness which I suppose many guys are like that.


So there is a "trend" now in training. / coaching that deals with "specificity"....IOW, as you get closer to your "A" race, your training should begin to mimic those race demands.



So if my goal is to slug it out 7 days in a row with > 3k metres of climbing each day (21000 m of vertical over the week) needing to meet a 17kph cutoff speed to stay ahead of the broom wagon, how should I train? Maybe y'all can lend me your glorious ability to suffer. Certainly this topic is very much pertinent in terms of goals for 2015. About a handful spots left to join me
C2K_Rider

Posts:173

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12/16/2014 04:24 PM
So there is a "trend" now in training. / coaching that bdeals with "specificity"....IOW, as you get closer to your "A" race, your training should begin to mimic those race demands.

If your big goal of the season is the state RR, you would do more high intensity stuff early in the year and then begin to add distance as you approach the race. This concept is advocated a lot for long-course triathletes. Do high intensity stuff in the winter and then add volume as the race approaches.



intensity builds strength, which leads to faster riding when you do longer distances. However, doing high intensity early and neglecting it later will lead to average speed. Gains from intensity only last so long.. Better is to cycle these and have each cycle build on the previous. Intensity to gain strength and speed, volume to build endurance, intensity to build speed on top of the endurance. Volume to utile endurance on top of speed. intensity tot build more speed. You get the idea. The key thing to figure out is how much to do on each cycle....but you can determine this by doing standard test rides every few weeks to see if you are gaining or stagnating
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