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Wise rims and tire choices
Last Post 06/14/2013 05:41 PM by Darrell Edwards. 12 Replies.
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steelbikerider

Posts:42

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06/08/2013 08:09 PM
Currently have HED rims and soon to have PR4's in 23 mm. Looking at a true 25 mm width in a race clincher. What do you have and what do they measure?
79pmooney

Posts:1094

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06/08/2013 08:47 PM
Wise rims and tire choices


Your title brings up what is on my mind all day now. (Sorry about the thread drift.) I am going to seriously reconsider what I've been riding on my cheap, fun bike, the Dumpster. I've been using kevlar bead Forte DC Pros on Open Pro front and Velocity Aero rear rims for that bike (both probably 19 mm). Wednesday I was unable to keep the bike rideable after the rear tire blew at about 25 mph (fixed). Went down burning basically no speed off very hard. Broken collarbone. Way more than a dozen abrasions. Lots of bruises. A hip I cannot yet walk on. A nearly severed ear. And lots of other stuff. Simply too high a consequence for a "**it happens".

I never saw this with sew-ups. I don't remember this with wired on clinchers though maybe I've just been lucky. I do know I feel very gun shy about riding that combo again. If sew-ups can save me from ever doing this again, they look cheap.

Ben
longslowdistance

Posts:630

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06/09/2013 09:47 AM
Ben, sorry for your really hard crash. Can you explain something in your note I don't understand? What does " (fixed)" mean?
PS: Xrays don't show all hip fractures. Might be worth visiting an orthopod or sports med doc since you still can't bear weight on that hip. Some hairline fractures need surgery or they'll get worse. They may feel an MRI is in order, which is great for "problem solving" cases like yours. If they order a bone scan, tell them no, you want an mri. It's more accurate.
Gonzo Cyclist

Posts:200

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06/09/2013 01:28 PM
looking at some Enve's, thought about doing their 9'er downhill version for the carbon cross bike, these are wider than their MTB version, and they look very stout, most likely in the 25mm range
79pmooney

Posts:1094

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06/09/2013 05:40 PM
lsd - "fixied" ie fix gear, where you run one chainring and the single rear cog is screwed onto a special hub and secured with a lockring. All bikes raced on velodromes are fix gears of "fixed". My bikes use the same or similar drive train parts but are true road bikes with brakes, etc.

What all fix gears have in common is that they never "coast". You are always pedaling in exact proportion to the speed the rear wheel is rotating.

My hip is rapidly getting much better. Yesterday I just used the crutch as a cane. Today I've been getting around the house OK without. I'm going to try driving to the store and using their "walker". (The shopping cart should work nicely for that.) I'll bring teh crutch. I may need the cane and sympathy never hurts.) I think the real issue is just that my hip took a major body slam. To expect it to say "oh, no big deal" was asking a little much.

Ben
dkri

Posts:80

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06/09/2013 09:27 PM
Steel -

Tell me as much as you can about your baseline - what tires/rims/psi/etc? And what are you looking for with the tires you seek? As specifically as possible, what characteristics are you looking to maximize/eliminate?

Interior brake track width increases tire width. 2mm of extra rim width (interior) will make the same tire ~1mm wider. This is true across many many "23mm" tires on rims from 14 to 18mm wide inside the brake track.

Contis, on your HED rims, should be exactly per stated size. The PR4s will be close as well. Vittoria EVO CX will be a little wide, Challenges will be quite wide. A Challenge Criterium 23 might be as close to 25 as a PR4 25. Criteriums are REALLY nice. I love them. I'd race on any of the tires I mention. Love them all.
formerly dkri
steelbikerider

Posts:42

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06/09/2013 10:30 PM
I'm looking for that magic sew-up ride without the hassle. Currently have PR 3/4 combo's with 95- 98 in front and 104 in back and latex tubes. I have a really accurate guage. I'm at 195 and dropping Maybe a RR or 2 late in the year so the HEDs will be my race wheel. Son and wife in college mean no Rails anytime soon - sorry. I'm an old-timer and still call them sew-ups and have glued, patched and resewn my share.
dkri

Posts:80

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06/10/2013 08:21 AM
Conti 4000s in 25 will be right there. Latex tubes are good. Challenge Strada 25 will set up over 26mm wide on your rims. Vittoria Corsa EVO CX is another great choice that will set up at least 25mm wide on your rims.

Obviously you are going to take a hit on durability and puncture resistance with any of these. Personally, I think it's worth it. I hate crappy tires.
formerly dkri
CarbonGecko

Posts:38

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06/10/2013 09:04 AM
I have narrower rims than you are going to. My favorite 25mm race level tires are: Schwalbe Ultremo ZX or the Vittoria EVO CX. I typically use the Schwalbe since they are a bit lighter but at the same time they seem to be a bit more durable especially in the sidewall.

Vittoria also makes a tire called the Diamonte Pro Light in 25mm. They have a nylon casing and have a somewhat less "forgiving"?? feeling ride to them. I don't have as much time on them. My impression was they weren't quite as durable and I wasn't sure I liked the way they corner as much but they are very light (~185g) and seem to roll really nicely.

I'd probably say for climbing or time trial type stuff the Diamonte Pro Light, for everyday road racing, crits, training the Schwalbe Ultremo ZX.

I have used 25mm tires exclusively for years and clinchers since the 90's. It is likely true that a clincher can come off the rim when flat, and cause you to lose control. That is one of the key points pro's still give for using tubulars. That small risk isn't worth the hassle and expense of tubulars for me.
longslowdistance

Posts:630

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06/10/2013 10:24 AM
Posted By 79 pmooney on 06/09/2013 05:40 PM
lsd - "fixied" ie fix gear, where you run one chainring and the single rear cog is screwed onto a special hub and secured with a lockring. All bikes raced on velodromes are fix gears of "fixed". My bikes use the same or similar drive train parts but are true road bikes with brakes, etc.

What all fix gears have in common is that they never "coast". You are always pedaling in exact proportion to the speed the rear wheel is rotating.

Ben

Ben, I do know what a fixie is , (I raced on the track, badly, in the 70s etc.). I thought that was what you meant, but before I brought this up I wanted to be sure:
Do you think it may have contributed to the severity of your injuries? E.g., the reflexive muscle contractions fighting the turning crank that go with a fixie crash can contribute to fairly severe muscle strains. And reduce control, leading to a harder fall.

79pmooney

Posts:1094

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06/10/2013 03:08 PM
lsd, I thought you did. You've been around a long time! Yes, riding fixed and doing it on a very quick steering bike with very powerful stoppers were a real part of it. At the same time, I've been riding fixed a LONG time and many times have been glad I've been on a fixie when things got hairy.

I suspect the severity of the crash has little to do with fixed or otherwise. There are no good outcomes going down at that speed on dry pavement. Could I have ridden a geared bike to a standstill or much slower? I do not know. Would a slower steering bike have helped? I guess when I am healed up, I could make those changes, duplicate the speed, location and blowout and see. I'll pass on doing that test.

CarbonGedko, could I have done better riding a blown out sew-up? I've blown out sew-ups at that speed a few times years ago. No memories of such events, but that may be because I just rode the bike to a stop and changed the tire. No big deal. Well, this one was a big deal. Sew-ups would cost me much of a grand extra per year. I may be riding another 20 years. This crash will cost me + insurance ~ a grand. (It was a cheapie. $6 taxie and two walk-in clinic visits. The 24 hours after getting hit by the car three years ago cost $20 grand.)

So $10 grand over the rest of my riding days to 1) ride the sweetest set-up ever invented and 2) be able to go fast and not be thinking about blow-outs. Enticing? Might push me over the edge and back into the world of glue.

Oh, the piece of gear that would almost certainly have helped: brakes with better modulation. The old Mafac centerpulls. In that situation, they would have excelled, especially as a front brake, keeping weight as much as possible on the squirrely rear end. Unfortunately, I only use the Mafacs on my two winter bikes, not my fun bikes.

Ben
CB2

Posts:18

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06/14/2013 07:40 AM
I've been riding Specialized Roubaix Pro 25/28s on Stan's Alpha 340s rims since February. I don't know if it's the tires, the rims or the combo, but they are the best riding clichers I've tried. (I suspect the later as I have the same tires on a different wheelset and they are not quite as nice) . More tubular ride than most tubulars I've ridden on not a single f***(about 2500 miles between two different bikes).
steelbikerider

Posts:42

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06/14/2013 05:41 PM
meant to type wide rims instead of wise but the thread came out fine anyway. I will try latex tubes on some old PR3's tomorrow. Just received my PR4's from PBK today so they will get set up later.
I've been riding PR's for years but I have heard enough good about the Conti's that I may try them next.
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