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politics
Last Post 06/05/2017 09:01 AM by Cosmic Kid. 187 Replies.
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Nick A

Posts:525

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02/02/2016 10:24 AM
In my youth, I was pretty bleeding heart liberal. Come Bill Clinton, I was turned off by the BS, that I became "non-partisan", or whatever it may have been called in the state in which I was living. I even voted for Ross Perot, twice. I re-registered as a Democrat in order to vote in the primaries for Obama. That being said, I like our current Republican mayor here in Albuquerque. In other words, I'm a registered Democrat, but hardly "left wing". However, I am supporting Bernie Sanders. I've worked in big corporations, I've worked at the VA ("big government"), lived in New York City, Washington DC, and rural Colorado. My heart and ideals are to the left, but I also know what happens when things are over-regulated in a top down fashion. It's as if we need the swings to the left and the right. That being said, we've "swung" pretty right from about 1980 to 2008. I think it's absolutely effing ridiculous that we don't have universal health care. I worked at the VA, and am not a fan of "government run" health care, that is when the doctors are employed by the government. This is what they have in England. However, in Canada (and many, many other countries), the government simply pays the bills. They even call it Medicare. In other words, Medicare for all. I would think if you were truly pro-business, you would want this. Why do you want to deal with insurance company premiums as a business owner? If you are a citizen, why do you want to pay MORE for the same health care? If you are a pundit in favor of small business, well, it's a lot easier to start a business, or be self employed when you don't have to deal with this. Maybe you're just rich and selfish, don't care about others, and want better health care than the rest. Go for it! You can still pay out of pocket. Yes, rich people live better. So be it.

Nobody thought Obama had a shot at first either. Sanders has been in politics for a long time, so I do think he knows how to get things done. Even if he got elected for just one term, and we all were covered by Medicare, that would be monumental.

Nick
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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02/02/2016 10:42 AM


A lot of the trump fans have the same dream, just substitute Trump for Bernie.

ChinookPass

Posts:809

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02/02/2016 10:50 AM
Informal surveys of people I know finds that people feel mostly the same way, that the repub candidates are crazy and dangerous (and I'm not just talking about folks in the WA state democratic bubble). Why don't the polls reflect this? It's mind bending to me.

But then I talked to my sister who lives in Des Moines. Told me she would caucus for Cruz but she had to work. The crazy repubs somehow look sane to a lot of people.
longslowdistance

Posts:1500

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02/02/2016 10:52 AM
Magical thinking. "He says what I want to hear".
huckleberry

Posts:501

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02/02/2016 11:33 AM
"He says what I want to hear"

Of course. Who is going to go for somebody who says they stand for things that the person voting is against?

I like what Bernie says. Very much. And unlike many other candidates of both sides - he has been saying these things for a long time. He believes in them, which helps me to believe in him.

Do you think Trump believes half the sh*t he says?

And I don't like what Cruz and many of the Republicans say - so why would my vote go there?
huckleberry

Posts:501

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02/02/2016 11:37 AM
Edit: Actually I am disgusted as a human being by what candidates such as Cruz and Trump say, and how they say it.

And even more upset by the electorate that thinks that type of rhetoric is acceptable - while at the same time claiming to hold Christian values.

It's a f*cking sharp sword to be swing around.
ChinookPass

Posts:809

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02/02/2016 11:58 AM
Huck, be consoled that only about 50% of repubs in Iowa voted for the dip$4it#1 and dip$4it#2.
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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02/02/2016 12:01 PM
It is good to bear in mind that if we'd transpose these candidates to any election around the world outside US, only Sanders and O'Malley would stand a snowball's chance in hell of being viable. Clinton would be off to right outfield and the rest would be send to the madhouse.

Good to see Sanders doing well last night (and really, coin tosses???) but he'll need to do well in NH to build momentum and even then it will be a tall order to go all the way. The fact that he's viable is huge kudos to what Obama has managed to achieve. Ultimately though Sander's not subscribing to the American exceptionalism mantra that seems to be a prerequisite for any candidate for office will be the sword he is going to fall on.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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02/02/2016 12:42 PM
Posted By Orange Crush on 02/02/2016 12:01 PM
It is good to bear in mind that if we'd transpose these candidates to any election around the world outside US, only Sanders and O'Malley would stand a snowball's chance in hell of being viable. Clinton would be off to right outfield and the rest would be send to the madhouse.


An excellent point, OC....anywhere else in the world (OK, maybe not Russia ), and Hillary would be a Center-Right candidate and not a "liberal".

Our overall political spectrum is much narrower, and more skewed to ther ight, than the rest of the world.

Not passing judgement on that....just a simple statement of fact.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:955

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02/02/2016 01:23 PM
If Norway were next door I'd move there in a minute. I'd be happy to have their brand of socialism and get away from the Ayn Rand oligarchy crony military centered pseud-regligious capitalism we'd had crammed down our throats over the past 50 years.

While I'm on my rant... any candidate who uses the term "carpet bomb" understands neither carpet nor bombs and learned nothing from Viet Nam and General Curtis LeMay who was going to "bomb them into the stone age." Hey Curt, how'd that work out? Would 'ja mind calling Ted the Cruz Missile and have a chat with him? Fookin' chicken hawks anyway.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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02/02/2016 01:32 PM
Well, that is just it....Norway (or any of the much-esteemed Scandinavian countries) is not a socialist society, it is a Social Democracy.

I've opined on this many times before (although maybe not here) that neither capitalism or socialism can stand on its own....they both need each other to survive. Socialism does not provide the economic growth necessary for a sustainable economy (profit is NOT a dirty word), and capitalism, left to its own devices will collapse under its own weight as it grinds down the workers until they revolt.

You need to economic growth of capitalism tempered with the social aspects of Socialism to even things out....to what degree each society slides on that scale is up to them. Scandanavian countries skew farther to the left, US further to the right.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:955

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02/02/2016 01:42 PM
Yup, I lived in Norge for a couple of years and loved the freedoms, the safety net, education-- vocational as well as collegiate, land access along with the number of small to mid-sized businesses that allowed for a solid economy. Pure socialism and pure capitalism are both losers.
huckleberry

Posts:501

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02/02/2016 02:29 PM
I don't think that many voters in favor of Bernie are thinking we are going towards some pure form of socialism, nothing near that, just a reasonable safety net for the citizens of a first world country and economy.

As opposed to those hoping to continue the enrichment of the upper, upper classes. And that ain't capitalism either. It's a manipulation of those capitalistic venues.

The oddest thing is how many idiots vote against there own better interests. It's as if they think they are going to be a member of the one percent in their next life.

But, I guess, you throw Jesus in there, and it makes everything more palatable.

Evangelicals for Trump ; )

Shows me their true colors and IQ...
Cosmic Kid

Posts:2187

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02/02/2016 03:54 PM
The oddest thing is how many idiots vote against there own better interests.


The greatest con job in the history of US politics....through a bullschitt concoction of nationalism, religion and social conservatism, the GOP has figured out how to get people to consistently vote against their best interests.

There were demographic groups that once would have been strongholds for Democrats, but are now firmly locked into the GOP.

Utterly amazing....and brilliant (at least from an effectiveness POV)
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Orange Crush

Posts:2017

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02/02/2016 04:11 PM
CK - brilliant except that this strange marriage between the GOP have's and have not's has started blowing up in GOP elite's face big time. Couple interesting articles written about this recently.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/the-great-republican-revolt/419118/

Irrespective of the election's ultimate outcome, I think between the GOP revolt and the struggle for direction of Democratic party we're seeing a bit of a rewrite of the political landscape which may open up space for a third party.
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