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Tommy, Tommy, Tommy
Last Post 08/27/2021 05:54 PM by Orange Crush. 8 Replies.
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Orange Crush

Posts:3554

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08/25/2021 09:19 AM
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/tom-danielson-wants-your-sympathy-for-breaking-the-spirit-of-gravel-racing-dont-give-it-to-him/
longslowdistance

Posts:2414

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08/25/2021 09:32 AM
Blistering is an understatement!
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3572

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08/25/2021 10:49 AM
Man who spent his whole career cheating now employs questionable tactics for his clients to win bike races.

Shocker.

FTG.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
Dale

Posts:1453

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08/25/2021 03:25 PM
My already low opinion of him dropped even lower, and I did not think that was possible.

Just. Go. Away.
longslowdistance

Posts:2414

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08/25/2021 06:54 PM
Wasn't this a thing in marathon running, too, at least in the past?
How fat was the pay for those supporting riders? Maybe riding as a "male escort" makes good money, (hard to blame a fellow for making a well earned buck).

This is a bit optimistic, but if this story breaks into wider publicity this might be good for the sport overall, and also the conversation about what constitutes fairness in sport. Tangent: Transgender former males are showing up in women's sports and some are dominating. Fair?

Maybe Tommy D should consider Law School or better yet tax accounting. Guys who simultaneously understand the letter of the law and can turn a blind eye to the intent are naturals.
Cosmic Kid

Posts:3572

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08/26/2021 09:38 AM
This is a bit optimistic, but if this story breaks into wider publicity this might be good for the sport overall, and also the conversation about what constitutes fairness in sport. Tangent: Transgender former males are showing up in women's sports and some are dominating. Fair?


Both topics have generated a fair amount of discussion on the Trainer Road forum....

re: gravel and men purposely working for women, the reality is that it is a 100% legal tactic....but, IMO, ethically questionable. The fuzzy area is that due to the mass start nature of gravel races, some intermixing is inevitable....but when you have dedciated teammates, that is where you cross the line. Not certain how to codify that one.

re: transgender athletes, the numbers bear out that it is an overwhelmingly small number and I tend to lean towards the side of inclusion....but I am certainly sympathetic to the complaints of women directly impacted by that inclusion. At the end of the day, someone is going to get the short-end of the stick....and it will suck for those who do.
Just say "NO!" to WCP!!!!
79pmooney

Posts:2742

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08/26/2021 10:29 AM
CK, I raced with a clubmate in his early 40s in 1976. His specialty was time trials and he was the best over 40 in the state. Had high hopes of doing well at the National. Well, that year, the Masters age went from 40 to 35. He was now competing against the likes of a 35 yo John Allis. As expected, he was the best 40+ but didn't even qualify.

Divisions suck. Any way you parse them, someone loses out. Have none and you get what we see here once the prize money and prestige up. (Or you have dozens of divisions and tiny fields.)
Dale

Posts:1453

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08/26/2021 01:11 PM
Posted By Cosmic Kid on 08/26/2021 09:38 AM


...men purposely working for women, the reality is that it is a 100% legal tactic....but, IMO, ethically questionable. The fuzzy area is that due to the mass start nature of gravel races, some intermixing is inevitable....but when you have dedciated teammates, that is where you cross the line. Not certain how to codify that one.


Cue up Potter Stewart's line "I know it when I see it." It might be hard to codify but it's not hard to "know it when one sees it."
Orange Crush

Posts:3554

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08/27/2021 05:54 PM
Velonews spent some commentary on this which is more balanced and removes TD from equation:

https://www.velonews.com/culture/opinion-rules-are-good-for-big-gravel-races-spirit-is-vague-and-unenforceable/

More importantly (much of the argumentation back and forth is done by men), a wide range of opinions from pro women on pros and cons of separating the fields (and some quite interesting considerations like "racing with men is dangerous"):

https://www.velonews.com/news/gravel/should-gravel-races-have-separate-fields-for-elite-women-we-asked-the-riders/
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